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Ian Grant
03-07-2009, 02:35 PM
After 3 years of searching diligently I've finally been able to buy 6 9x12 cut film adaptors for Plate holders.

I need more but now intend to get them made in future, they aren't rocket science.

If any one else is interested let me know, I can't make promises but I guess other sizes are possible but a pattern might be necessary.

Ian

Michael W
03-07-2009, 03:46 PM
I'd be interested in getting some. I have 9x12 film & 9x12 plate holders but no film sheaths.

Ole
03-07-2009, 04:10 PM
I have some, but always need more.

I can also provide other sizes for use as patterns, including 6.5x9cm, 10x15cm, 5x7", 13x18cm and 18x24cm.

Ian Grant
03-08-2009, 03:57 PM
I'll hopefully be getting the 9x12's made in about 3 weeks, when I'm back in the UK. PM on it's way goldie

There's a lot of skills out there in the community we don't think about tapping into, or even appreciate are there. When I bought my first LF camera a De Vere a leaf spring on the back was broken, my father took it to work -n the new springs ere better than the originals.

Ole, for other sizes I would ideally need some scrap film & a plate holder, but in reality you should already have access to engineering workshops that could make them for you.

Ian

apkujeong
03-08-2009, 06:29 PM
Are the sheaths really that rare? I've found 9x12 sheaths / plate holders fairly easy to come by, I've only been looking a few months.

On the other hand, I've been looking out for 13x18 for a kind soul who helped me out with 9x12 gear, and 13x18 Zeiss / Ica gear really does seem rare. If anyone has any unused, contact me and I'll pass the info along.

Mark Layne
03-09-2009, 09:34 PM
I'll hopefully be getting the 9x12's made in about 3 weeks, when I'm back in the UK. PM on it's way goldie

There's a lot of skills out there in the community we don't think about tapping into, or even appreciate are there. When I bought my first LF camera a De Vere a leaf spring on the back was broken, my father took it to work -n the new springs ere better than the originals.

Ole, for other sizes I would ideally need some scrap film & a plate holder, but in reality you should already have access to engineering workshops that could make them for you.

Ian

If I were going to tackle a project like this I would consider getting a male/female letterpress die pair made up and stamp some sort of rigidity pattern in the sheet before bending it up such as the Kodak ones have.
Most small letterpresses such as the Heidelberg platen could deliver enough pressure. Even an arbor press.
Bend the lips long enough to handle and then mill them to size. Not try to form those tiny lips same size. Better yet rim them to size with a horizontal mill and slitting saw.
Just my late night rant
Mark

apkujeong
03-10-2009, 01:08 PM
Mark, you've given this some thought! Sounds like some useful pointers there. I like the Kodak sheaths too, nice design.

Ian Grant
03-10-2009, 03:09 PM
The Kodak Recomar 9x12 holders are common in the US and they often come with the film adaptors, but in Europe the plate holders & film pack backs seem to have bee more prevalent.

I have detailed photographs of the Kodak holders & inserts, they were made to be used together and the inserts are different to those made in Europe. By the time Kodak entered the 9x12 market buying Nagel the field was already fairly mature and glass plates far less common so there was then a greater need for a dual purpose plate/film holder.

The simpler European style film inserts work fine and are obviously far easier to make, the costs of getting a pair of dies made to press Kodak style inserts is to high for the small number required, particularly for more than one size.

Ian

Anastigmatic
03-11-2009, 06:09 AM
Ian, if you can post the pictures of the kodak holders it would be interesting to see the difference between these and euro holders, i suspect they are simular to kodak larger format film sheaths. i cant imagine the small 9x12 size would benifit too much by pressing rigidity paterns into them. at least the couple of different euro types i have dont seem to need them.

curious how much these are going to cost you to make, i have a local firm that will order in the thin sheet and laser cut me some (i looked into it quite some time back so they have my plans on their computer, but other things keep cropping up for me to do instead, so i havnt placed the order yet) but its not exactly cheap---i have around a dozen which is generaly enough but there are times when i want more (another ten or so) so i have been meaning to get them done--to make it economical though i would get one or two sheets of steel cut and have to sell of the holders i dont need, which i figured might take a while lol

Ian Grant
03-11-2009, 07:28 AM
I'll try and find the Kodak photo's, not sure where they are at the moment. The Kodak 9x12 plate holder looks similar to the european ones, it's not like the Kodak film & plate holders for other formats. It's just the way the film converter fits in and is pressed that really differs.

Like you I can't see any need for pressing 9x12's I don't suppose they had laser cutters in Germany pre-WWII though :D

So far I've no idea how much they'll cost to make but as I'm not after a large quantity they'll have to be cut by hand, which is how many would have been made originally.

Ian

Anastigmatic
03-11-2009, 06:48 PM
in the old days they would of used metal work brake presses and such to cut i imagine and so the metal work guys i have spoken to that i have shown these to said.

i found that with the cost of labour nowadays laser cutting isnt any more exspensive and in fact most metal work places didnt want to bother with doing them and wanted them laser cut if thy were to do the folds (unless you were to cut and make them yourself, but they often have that home made look to them then).

also some sheaths i have, have curved shapes on the ends of the folds and making curves or shapes is no more exspensive if laser cutting, so that is a small avantage . the other sheaths are just neatly cut square ends to the fold over lips that hold the film in.

as you say its not rocket science to make them, but i was suprised how i had to twist their arm to get people to agree to make them--in the end they are doing it as a sort of a favour. they seem to prefer to make things that will bring in more money and bigger quanities of work. i was pushing my luck when i asked, if and how, they would go about making the actual plate holders. they freaked LOL, and said no way, look at all those folds and such and that 'we are only doing these to get you out of trouble' haha (i was only curious as i have heaps already)

the metal work guys reckon that in the old days they must of had machines specifically for these things, holders and the sheaths. as most modern machines in common use will only fold to a minimum of 4mm, whereas many of the old sheaths have a 3mm fold. in the end the guy will have to adjust his machine and then hold by hand to try and get the smaller fold, he says he thinks he can do it because of the very thin material, which is a special order by the way (for me anyway) because most commonly available stock is .5mm and the origianal sheaths are thinner than that

Farside
08-14-2009, 08:14 AM
Dragging this old thread up from the dungeons, I am looking for 9x12 film sheaths now.
Are all the sheaths/inserts the same in principle? I see mention of differences between Recomar and European ones - it's the European ones I need.
Looking at a couple of Rhaco plate holders I have, I wonder if a simple sheet of aluminium could do as a base filler for the film to sit on.

Ian Grant
08-14-2009, 08:29 AM
In theory yes but the reality is the inserts have a lip which holds the film, they are very easy to use. I have a pattern for making them but I need to search where I saved it. Will find it Sunday if I get time and post it here.

Ian

Farside
08-14-2009, 08:49 AM
In theory yes but the reality is the inserts have a lip which holds the film, they are very easy to use. I have a pattern for making them but I need to search where I saved it. Will find it Sunday if I get time and post it here.

Ian

Many thanks.
It's just occured to me that a single sheet of ally with lips expoxied flat along each long side will hold the film central and I presume the film tucks under the top and bottom overhangs of the holder. The combined thickness of the sheet+lips would be the same as a glass plate.