PDA

View Full Version : Lithable hand made emulsion



John Bond
05-04-2009, 05:06 PM
With the steady decline in the number of papers that lith print, has anyone explored hand made emulsions that lith?

Photo Engineer
05-04-2009, 05:56 PM
John;

I have not tried any lithing with any of my Br or Br/I emulsions, but they might work. Commercial emulsions should work as well.

Right now, I'm not sure what characteristics are needed to get a good lithable emulsion. I am too busy draining the swamp to worry about the alligators (or some such phrase). :D

PE

Hans2008
05-13-2009, 10:23 AM
What is lithing?

Photo Engineer
05-13-2009, 10:28 AM
Hans;

There are many threads on this here on APUG. It is not a subject for the emulsion making formum however as it is process related. I suggest you do a search.

PE

Marco B
05-13-2009, 10:47 AM
With the steady decline in the number of papers that lith print, has anyone explored hand made emulsions that lith?

Not tried lith printing yet, but from what I understood from it, it requires a long "wet processing" cycle for the paper, especially the development.

This may be a major issue with a hand coated liquid emulsion, as these (at least in my limited experience with Black Magic VC liquid emulsion) are far less robust than commercial papers, even when using hardening agents.

You may find (part of) your emulsion floating around in the developer before you actually manage to get a "lith" result... :o

Marco

Thomas Bertilsson
05-13-2009, 10:50 AM
PE - Are you up to your a$$ in alligators? :D

There are still many papers that work with lith developers, and although I don't know how hand made emulsions 'home coated' would work, it might be worth investigating what the liquid emulsions out there will do.
There are also many papers that may not look pleasing right out of the lith chemistry, but with toning can become quite attractive.
Also keep in mind that you can print on papers that don't normally lith, bleach them back and re-develop in lith chemistry.

There are lots of options to be optimistic, continue to push the envelope of what you think is possible and you may find yourself surprised. Try different things, experiment.

My latest discovery is that Ilford MGWT is now my favorite lith paper. Especially with the Arista Premium Liquid Lith, available from Freestyle, it's gorgeous. You have to go through some toning steps on the tail end to make it truly delicious, but it can be done. And if there's one single paper that is likely to outlast the others, it's Ilford MGWT.
The new Fomabrom Variant 123 has had some really nice results tied to it, which is also good news.

Thomas Bertilsson
05-13-2009, 10:53 AM
Not necessarily. It depends on how you approach lith printing.

Bob Carnie, master printer at Elevator, does lith with time development, same as regular printing, and controls all aspects at the moment of exposure with pre-flashing etc. If you use a strong and warm enough lith bath, you can get down to 3-4 minutes development time. I've had them as fast as 1.5 minutes at times.
If you use extremely dilute developer, however, you may have to keep the print wet as long as 30-60 minutes, though. You are correct there, and that type of approach may have to be omitted, if the maximum wet time the paper can withstand is short.

The wet processing time should not be an issue. Most of the time the print is wet it's being washed anyway.

- Thomas


Not tried lith printing yet, but from what I understood from it, it requires a long "wet processing" cycle for the paper, especially the development.

This may be a major issue with a hand coated liquid emulsion, as these (at least in my limited experience with Black Magic VC liquid emulsion) are far less robust than commercial papers, even when using hardening agents.

You may find (part of) your emulsion floating around in the developer before you actually manage to get a "lith" result... :o

Marco

Marco B
05-13-2009, 11:16 AM
If you use a strong and warm enough lith bath, you can get down to 3-4 minutes development time. I've had them as fast as 1.5 minutes at times.

OK, maybe it is do-able, but warming up your developer certainly won't help either with keeping the hand coated emulsion intact... I like to coat with a brush, and these coatings tend to be fairly uneven and fragile at times, adding to the problems.

Thomas Bertilsson
05-13-2009, 11:25 AM
That's a good point I didn't consider. I'm talking about 75*F, so a bit above the standard 68*F. It helps to increase the activity of the developer and avoid long processing times.
Thanks!

Guillaume Zuili
05-13-2009, 02:52 PM
Everything is possible. You just need to try yourself !
:-)

Photo Engineer
05-13-2009, 05:14 PM
Yes, I am up to my (insert whatever anatomical part here) in alligators right now and have little time for APUG or the computer for that matter.

I can say though that you can harden home-made coainings to be just about equivalent to most commercial coatings. You may have to use a prehardener in some cases, but it does work.

PE

John Bond
05-14-2009, 02:03 PM
One of the things that makes lith printing interesting is the variety of tones that can be obtained based on grain size and halide content, various papers having their unique characteristics. If the practical aspects of creating a stable emulsion can be achieved, it occurs to me that hand made emulsion making might offer a new direction to take to make up for some of the variety that has been lost as so many papers have disappeared. I have some experience with lith printing, but none with emulsion making. This is something I would like to explore further.

dwross
05-14-2009, 02:28 PM
One of the things that makes lith printing interesting is the variety of tones that can be obtained based on grain size and halide content, various papers having their unique characteristics. If the practical aspects of creating a stable emulsion can be achieved, it occurs to me that hand made emulsion making might offer a new direction to take to make up for some of the variety that has been lost as so many papers have disappeared. I have some experience with lith printing, but none with emulsion making. This is something I would like to explore further.

Hi John,

I would be delighted if you would make up a batch of one of the paper recipes on The Light Farm and try it with lith printing. All of the recipes are 'stable', but it would be very interesting to experiment with customizing tweaks.

http://www.thelightfarm.com/Map/ContactPaperDev/ContactPaperPart1.htm

Thanks for the great idea.
Denise

Photo Engineer
05-14-2009, 02:31 PM
One of the things that makes lith printing interesting is the variety of tones that can be obtained based on grain size and halide content, various papers having their unique characteristics. If the practical aspects of creating a stable emulsion can be achieved, it occurs to me that hand made emulsion making might offer a new direction to take to make up for some of the variety that has been lost as so many papers have disappeared. I have some experience with lith printing, but none with emulsion making. This is something I would like to explore further.

John;

I have made this the goal of the last several years of my life and it can be and has been achieved. You should read more posts in this forum.

PE

John Bond
05-14-2009, 04:58 PM
I appreciate everyone's comments.