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Curt
11-22-2010, 07:51 PM
Mike maybe they are following the Kodak model of a few sheets for a higher price. I prefer my 11x14 in 50 sheet boxes and 8x10 in 100 sheet boxes. Mike what would you consider to be the one top 'other' paper?

Thanks,
Curt

mikebarger
11-22-2010, 09:13 PM
I didn't have a specific brand in mind, just know a lot of people use something other than MCC. I'll probably buy RC and look to freestyle, buy a couple brands, and give them a test run.

I have used Agfa papers and had an inventory gap before the revised paper came out. Used some Kodak RC IV I got off Ebay to fill that gap. That's not much of an option now.

Just doesn't feel right being poked with the small packages.

Mike

benjiboy
11-23-2010, 11:42 AM
MCC is back ? Oh, printing paper, I thought at first you were referring to the Marylebone Cricket Club, which is a more common abbreviation of M.C.C. in the UK. :)

Jerevan
11-23-2010, 12:14 PM
Dear Ol' Blighty is a wondrous isle, Ben, full of merry cricket gnomes.

ADOX Fotoimpex
11-23-2010, 02:30 PM
The savings of a box of 100 sheets as opposed to 4 boxes of 25 sheets is exactly 1,90 EUR. Does anyone really care about this ?

All other price rebates which were present in the past were "political" rebates which were cut from the markup of the manufacturer.

Today there is no such markup left for the manufacturer which would enable us to continue this price model. We also canīt do anything if currencies suddenly drop like the UKP in 2009 or the USD recently.

It is a mystery to me how Ilford is getting along with this right now and for the time beeing we will be more expensive in certain markets.

We make a very small margin on our papers (less than 15%) and we will keep it that way. If we were acting in the "old style" we would also go bankrupt like Agfa, Forte and all the others.

Times are different now. Things are not like they were. Prices too.

Kind regards,

Mirko

kb3lms
11-23-2010, 02:44 PM
It's good to see that kind of thinking! Make a fair profit and stay in the business because you want to and provide a quality product. That gives us all choices and keeps the medium alive. This is the sort of idea I was talking about in my Kodachrome post earlier today.

Jerevan
11-23-2010, 02:58 PM
Mirko,

With a margin of less than 15% there is no place for old style extravaganzas. The hard reailty is that if you want something to be around, you have to buy it. Or as in your case, make it. :)

Sal Santamaura
11-23-2010, 03:08 PM
...I'm out of that market until we see it in 100 sheet boxes...Sure seems like cutting off one's nose to spite one's face. Especially given the "huge" potential savings Mirko explains in post #65!

mikebarger
11-23-2010, 05:34 PM
Welp, it was too long anyway, and I'm sure it's not the only decent paper out there.

$9.00 times 6 boxes a year equals $54.00. $54.00 times five years equals $270 USD. Still not a lot, but some principle is involved.

Mike

Roger Thoms
11-23-2010, 06:19 PM
100 sheet boxes of 8x10 would be nice, but I will certainly continue to buy the paper in the 25 sheet packages.

Roger

Sal Santamaura
11-23-2010, 08:14 PM
...$9.00 times 6 boxes a year equals $54.00. $54.00 times five years equals $270 USD. Still not a lot, but some principle is involved...Not following the math. xe.com converts the 1.9 Euro Mirko quoted to $2.55. That would be the savings per 100 sheets if it were packaged in a 100-sheet box rather than 4 25-sheet envelopes. How many hundred sheets are you saying you'd use per year / five years? What would the price difference be?

Other than "frugality," what principle is involved?

mikebarger
11-23-2010, 08:32 PM
Let's just say they aren't offering the package option I'm looking for, a good FB paper in a 100 sheet box at a reasonable discount to a 25 sheet box. (actually I'd really prefer 250 or 500 sheet boxes like Kodak used to sell). So, I'll try other manufacturers products to see how they compare. I'll probably start with Foma FB since they have become a partner with APUG.

If you go above and look at my 7/27/09 post, in this thread, you'll see I was asking for a 250 sheet box then.

If you check Freestyle prices from other manufacturers, there is a considerably bigger price difference between 25 and 100 sheet boxes than is suggested above. Maybe the way they manage their business, or the profit they require, doesn't make 100 sheet (or larger) boxes acceptable to them. That's their business, not mine.

A free marketplace is good for consumers and companies that are lean and competitive.

Mike

ADOX Fotoimpex
11-24-2010, 03:28 PM
Mike,

did thoughts about why Kodak purposely pulled out of paper manufacturing ever come cross your mind when you are asking for their price structure and 250 sheet boxes to come back allive ?
We manufacture boxes of 100 sheets. The discount as opposed to 4x25 sheets is about 2 Dollars.
I guess thatīs why freestyle is not carrying them. We donīt save more per box than packaging and black bags.

Mirko

mikebarger
11-24-2010, 03:45 PM
Mirko,

Sure, I know I’m one of the few individuals left that would buy a 250 sheet box of a paper, they like, for the savings vs. smaller boxes. I’d even like a 500 sheet box.

Kodak works on a very large volume and I’m sure when sales got to a certain point they pulled the plug and invested that capital somewhere to earn a larger profit than what paper would provide them. I understand that, and I’d do the same.

I like your product, but I prefer to buy larger boxes at a discount to the small box price. If it doesn’t make business sense for you to sell a 100 sheet box of paper at a discount to the small box, I’m fine with that.

However, there still are paper manufacturers that manage their business in such a way they can sell a 100 sheet box at a significant discount to their 25 sheet box.

I’ve decided to try a couple different brands and see what happens. I may like them, or I may say what the heck, and return to buying your product in small boxes.

In any event, I do wish you well in your venture.

Mike

ADOX Fotoimpex
11-24-2010, 05:02 PM
Mike,

Maybe we should have raised the price for 25 sheet boxes in order to offer "political savings" on 100 sheet boxes.

But on the other hand thatīs just not how we like to do business.

Letīs see what the future brings.

Thanks,

Mirko


BTW Fomafoto has nothing to do with Foma Bohemia SRO.

mikebarger
11-24-2010, 06:05 PM
I did not know there was a difference, thanks for the heads up. Just assumed Foma in the name made it one outfit.

Mike

Curt
11-24-2010, 08:11 PM
Can I get one sheet? It's all I need to see if it's worth the cost of a 25 sheet box. Seriously though what the heck happened to Oriental that caused it to be so bad and why haven't they fix it?

I used a bunch of 120 roll film on the last trip, the rolls were Adox 25 CHS, I knew it was prone to defects and wasn't disappointed, I exposed numerous frames on of each scene on each roll. Sure enough there they were small pinholes and small black things, intermittently on the film. I've used Adox since the 1970's and all from Freestyle, it seems that the film goes through periods of maladjustments.

Now with Ilford and Kodak and now Rollei Pan 25, not a problem, same developer and same method of development, flaw free film. I never had a roll of Panatomic X that was bad or had a defect, beat that for quality control. I'm a believer so I'm sticking to Ilford film and some Rollei Pan 25. The Fuji Acros 100 is clean, neat and dries flat, that a plus in my book, and it's also inexpensive as things go and like Kodak and Ilford is the other film that's available at B&H, Adorama, and Freestyle plus others and not, that's not just available at Freestyle.

As for paper I'm giving serious consideration to Ilford MG**, I've tried a few of the current papers and some are just flat and lifeless. Of course there is nothing like a Carbon Transfer print, the ultimate print.

Freestyle is a five star business and I appreciate all the company has done for me all these years. Adorama has been stellar in my opinion and I will continue to buy from them. I've not had a problem with B&H either.

So the op said MCC is back, I wasn't a big user of it before it was gone the first time, perhaps I was busy with Oriental like AA and others suggested.

I think one reason why it might be requested from the manufacturer in 25 sheet boxes is when the end buyer sees the cost of a 100 sheet box they might have sticker shock.

There is another solution, use AZO, now gone but some can be had second hand, or Lodima from Michael Smith, it's a high quality contact printing paper, the only drawback or a plus as the case may go, is that it is a contact printing paper so those who projection print, enlarge, are out of luck unless they shoot at a size that they want for the final image. Now we are talking about Edward Weston and not Ansel Adams.

Ulrich Drolshagen
11-25-2010, 02:06 AM
I like your product, but I prefer to buy larger boxes at a discount to the small box price.
I think the possible price differences between let's say 25, 50 and 100 sheet boxes offered to please the customer would be outrun by an overall increase in prices due to the increase in stock and shortfall costs which must be accounted for in the end user prices. The possible savings by buying larger boxes would be pure illusion then.

Ulrich

mikebarger
11-25-2010, 07:08 AM
If you check prices at FS; it's not that way with some other manufacturers.

Mike

Ulrich Drolshagen
11-25-2010, 08:17 AM
If you check prices at FS; it's not that way with some other manufacturers.

Mike
You definitely can not know as long as they do not communicate their calculation.

Ulrich