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Mike1234
07-14-2009, 01:34 PM
I'm assembling a LF "pano" kit centered around a Canham MQC 57 that I'm having factory modified for greater shift capability... total 7+ inches. Shooting two side-by-side 5x7 sheets nets me a nice 2:5 ratio.

My reasoning is size/portability. I don't get around as I once did and a small/light 5x7 is much easier to carry than a "true" 5x12.5 pan-cam. It's true the lenses will be just as big/heavy... I'm trying to keep that issue under control. The tripod can be a bit smaller/lighter too vs. one needed for a larger camera.

I'll be stitching the two images via a modified Epson V750 with the glass plate removed from the optical path for aerial scanning using custom glassless carriers similar to the Beseler 4x5 negaflat (film held flat via stretching) and with adjustable height on all four corners.

QUESTION: Does this process count as "panoramic" shooting in this forum? Or am I still just a little squatty guy? :D

Andy K
07-14-2009, 01:38 PM
Welcome to APUG.

In my opinion, no it is not true pano.

You would be better off asking this on APUG's sister forum, Hybrid Photo LINK-> http://www.hybridphoto.com/forums/home.php

SuzanneR
07-14-2009, 01:38 PM
It sounds interesting, but is probably better suited to discuss at our sister site, Hybrid Photo.

http://www.hybridphoto.com/forums/home.php

Jeremy
07-14-2009, 01:48 PM
If you're really wanting an answer I would say "no".

Your output, while panoramic, doesn't fit within the scope of Apug.org as it's a digitally-mediated process (digital stitching).

So this only leaves asking about the camera, which is still only a 1.4:1 ratio and doesn't meet the requirements of the Panoramic Cameras and Accessories forum:

Aspect ratio of 2.5 :1 (or more of course).

Now this doesn't mean you couldn't ask any questions you have about shooting large format cameras or working with a 5x7 to make panoramic images using extreme shift, but those would probably be best asked in the Large Format Cameras and Accessories (http://www.apug.org/forums/forum44/) forum here on Apug.org. If you're specifically wanting to know about digital stitching and LF shooting then I would suggest asking at the Large Format Photography Forum (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/) (it's a completely different website and not affiliated with Apug.org) as digital topics are allowed to be discussed there and there are also a number of guys doing digital stitching.

Of course, these pano guys are wonderful chaps and would probably answer anything you asked in this forum.

DannL
07-14-2009, 02:13 PM
A panoramic image is a panoramic image regardless of the method used in it's creation. The earliest of panoramic images were assembled by using separate photograph segments. I would prefer to view two B/W 5x7 contact prints taped together to create a single panoramic image. (in keeping with outdated methods)

Mike1234
07-14-2009, 02:33 PM
I don't really have questions. Not at the moment anyway. I've been shooting LF since I was sixteen years old... been quite a few years since then... and I've worked with Photoshop since v2.0.

I'm just looking for a nice group of like-minded individuals who want to share experiences and maybe do a little buy/sell/trade.

I'll check out the hybird site listed above.

Heh... funny thing is I'm a member of another "hybrid" site that involves transplanting American V8 engines into little vintage Datsun 240Z cars. I guess I'm really into small, lightweight stuff that goes big and fast, LOL!! Some of those guys are running twin turbo or supercharged 434 small block Chevy's... many other hybrids too. If anyone is interested it's hybridz.org.

Sorry for going off-topic but the "hybrid" parallel thing just tickled me and I had to share. :p

keithwms
07-14-2009, 03:08 PM
I would recommend posting the unstitched images, simply cropped and side by side. Then you can get image discussion and critique here. I am afraid that there is little or no critique to be had at hybridphoto (unfortunately but also not too surprisingly, since it caters to the small union of two separate groups: analogue folks who want to do some digital and digital folks who want to do some analogue). Anyway, I'd say go ahead and post unstitched images and no feathers will be ruffled and we can use our imagination. I'd say that you just shouldn't post a digitally stitched pano in the gallery, that's all.

It's really not that most people are so allergically anti-digital that they don't want to see your stitched work, but... there has to be some reasonable line drawn between analogue and non-analogue processes. For that reason I do not post stitched, dewarped, or perspective corrected work here, or hybrid anything. I did do it once and learned that it just isn't worth the hassle.

arigram
07-14-2009, 03:15 PM
Only if you physically stitch the photographs together. Or glue them side by side as it has been done many times in the past.

Mike1234
07-14-2009, 03:19 PM
Only if you physically stitch the photographs together. Or glue them side by side as it has been done many times in the past.

What if I use "digital glue"? :p

arigram
07-14-2009, 03:23 PM
What if I use "digital glue"? :p
You can do whatever you wish, but it wouldn't be analog then and beyond the scope of discussion in this forum.

Venchka
07-14-2009, 03:33 PM
Best to visit the Large Format Photography Forum. 5x7 definitely counts. Very open minded and very helpful group.

Mike1234
07-14-2009, 03:36 PM
^^ Thank you... will do. ^^

Mike1234
07-14-2009, 03:38 PM
Or... maybe I should jus lie... not tell anyone I'm stitching. Anyone else doing that? :D Please... no one take offense. I'm just messing with you a little. No harm intended.

keithwms
07-14-2009, 03:41 PM
Or... maybe I should jus lie... not tell anyone I'm stitching. Anyone else doing that? :D Please... no one take offense. I'm just messing with you a little. No harm intended.

Your conscience would eat you from within.

Mike1234
07-14-2009, 03:48 PM
Your conscience would eat you from within.

Yeah, I know... :(

arigram
07-14-2009, 03:48 PM
Your conscience would eat you from within.
Really! I wonder how those evil, corrupt people that do fake tricks in photographs sleep at night... What's next? Photographing and eating babies?

keithwms
07-14-2009, 03:51 PM
Really! I wonder how those evil, corrupt people that do fake tricks in photographs sleep at night... What's next? Photographing and eating babies?

Let me rephrase:

If you have a conscience... then it would eat you from within.

:rolleyes:

Mike1234
07-14-2009, 03:59 PM
I have a conscience. I don't eat babies. No need to flame each other... I'll go away now because I'm unintentionally causing some tension here. It was nice corresponding with you nice folks. I do appreciate your kind advice. Everyone take care and happy shooting.

arigram
07-14-2009, 04:01 PM
Seriously though, I consider four kinds of panoramic photography:

a) The camera panoramic which is done on a camera with a wide angle lens and panoramic film back. Its main effect is that of the wide angle distortion and otherworldly perspective.
b) The digital panoramic stitching that creates a more "normal" viewpoint as it does not have the perspective distortion of the panoramic camera. It needs the most work to be successful and can't be done in one frame, thus they never include people unless even more post-processing collage techniques are applied.
c) A panorama made by putting normal rectangular photos next to each other. Apart from the visible seams or borders, the photographs themselves don't have to match and as such it is a creative decision of its own.
d) By cropping. It has the perspective of the lens used, but the main problem is the loss of resolution when enlarged as it is only a smaller part of a larger photograph. Also, more difficult to compose in camera unless a mask is used.

All are very different in artistic potential and meaning.

Also, I personally, do not like "fake tricks" as I call them, that is, post-processing that remains hidden from the audience and in digital often mimics analogue processes and characteristics and other visual media as well. In this case I feel that the creator is fooling the audience and is not being truthful to himself and may have moved to a medium different from photography but has not realised or telling.

Mike1234
07-14-2009, 04:23 PM
arigram...

I must have misconveyed my intentions. I am shooting a true panoramic image but on two sheets of film. The camera, front/rear standards, everything... stays in one place during the two exposures except the first exposure is made with the rear standard slid far to the left and the second exposure with the rear standard slid all the way to the right. This is really no different than sliding two pieces of 5x7 film into a single 5x14 cut film holder. The only difference is that I'm stitching digitally instead of using nasty old tape.

I replied with the above only to clarify why I am interested in this forum.

Again though, I have brought something here that is inappropriate to this forum... digital manipulation. I'm sorry for the interruption. There are many friendly/helpful members here and I will visit to pick "bits" from your minds and share "non-digital" experiences. :)

I appreciate that you are a purist at heart, arigram. However, I do not call digital manipulation "fake trickery" nor do I think anyone has the right to be scornful of it. After all how do you think "true artists" felt when photography was first invented? Wasn't photography considered "fake" and "trashy" by them? Some even believed it was some sort of evil sorcery. Perhaps the first flute whittled by ancient man was an evil magical thing because it didn't sound like a drum or two sticks slapping together? This is evolution and I'm trying to keep up with it.

Again, this is only in response to a couple of comments I don't agree with. Again too, I realize I'm in the wrong place. I intended no harm or disruption.