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coriana6jp
08-14-2009, 02:22 AM
Hi All,

As I sit here waiting to mug the mailman waiting for my 12x20 I got thinking about lenses a little bit. I currently have a 355mm G-Claron and a Fuji 600mm C, which I am sure will keep me busy for quite a while. I have on long term loan from a friend a Fujinon 450mm CMW from a friend.

But,

I am thinking something wider and longer would be nice at some point. The camera has 1 meter of bellows, so a lens in the 30 to 35 inch class and maybe something around 250mm would be nice. I know a 210mm Super Symmar XL will cover but thats getting pricey.

Any thoughts on what would cover 12x20 in these lengths that would break my bank too bad.

Thanks.

Gary

jp80874
08-14-2009, 07:05 AM
Gary,

The Kowa Computar Kyvytars are very hard to find in the US, but maybe they are more easily located where they were made. I don't know. They have been recommended in many posts on this subject.

210mm Schneider Super Angulon,
210 Schneider SSXL,
some 240mm Kowa Graphics,
240mm f/9 Computar
270mm f/9 Computar
---------------------------------
Kowa Computar Kyvytar

This is part of a test report written by Gordon Hutchings. Many years ago, Burleigh-Brooks introduced a line of lenses under the name of Computar; the Kowa Lens Company of Japan made them. These lenses were a remarkable value as they were a wide-angle plasmat, excellent quality and quite inexpensive. After Burleigh Brooks folded, the lenses were briefly carried by Kyvyx and were called Kyvytar and then independently offered by Kowa a Kowa Graphic lenses, in both shutter and barrel. These lenses were offered in 150, 210, and 300 mm length and are excellent buys, if you can find them. These lenses are hard to find, especially in 210 mm length. The cell of 150 and 310 mm barrel mounts will screw directly into a Copal # 1 shutter, with no adapters required. Some times the barrel lens will come with thin spacers. The trick is this, for center image use, the more spacers between the rear cell and the shutter the better. For the corners of the image, no spacer is best. This is why, in a shutter mount, we often see one spacer as the best overall compromise. For comparison, the 150 mm Kowa has an image circle of 290 mm or about 1degree inches of movement for a 5 x 7. The 210 mm Kowa has an image circle of 460 mm of about 2 degree inches of movement for the 8 x 10. This is why we love these lenses so much.

Note the 240mm Kowa is not mentioned, possibly because some have much more coverage than others.

John Powers

John Jarosz
08-14-2009, 08:17 AM
I use a 600mm Apo Ronar on my 8x20. I'm pretty sure it covers 12x20 as well. There also is an 800mm Apo Ronar. They are sharp, contrasty lenses. They usually come without shutters.

John

TheFlyingCamera
08-14-2009, 08:59 AM
I've got a 600mm f9 Docter Optics Apo-Germinar that should cover 12x20. They came in barrel only, if you have them mounted in a Copal 3, they become an f11 max.

coriana6jp
08-15-2009, 07:24 AM
Thanks for all the information. I am covered at 600mm with the Fuji, but the 800mm Ronar looks interesting. I also have a line on a 35 inch Aratar which has been mounted in a shutter.

Actually, Kowa graphics lenses are extremely hard to come by here, I have seen exactly two for sale here in the last 4 years. Does anyone know exactly which one of 240mm would cover 12x20? The SSXL is would be a first choice, but the $1000 center filter has me scared off a bit.

Thanks!

Gary

jp80874
08-15-2009, 10:46 AM
If there is any way you can try any 210mm I would do so. I bought a ssxl for 7x17 and found it too wide for my vision. I sold it to someone with a 12x20, making it a wider perspective. He says he loves it.

There are those who have that lens and do not need a center filter. It apparently depends on the subject. Jim at Midwest Photo (Columbus, OH - mpex.com) said to try a few shots before you buy the filter and then decide. I didn't get that far.

If you go to the LF Forum and search on "12x20 lens" there are several threads that might interest you. For that matter since you are just starting, there are many threads that come up when you just search on 12x20.

Hope some of this helps.

John Powers

sanking
08-15-2009, 12:48 PM
Thanks for all the information. I am covered at 600mm with the Fuji, but the 800mm Ronar looks interesting. I also have a line on a 35 inch Aratar which has been mounted in a shutter.

Actually, Kowa graphics lenses are extremely hard to come by here, I have seen exactly two for sale here in the last 4 years. Does anyone know exactly which one of 240mm would cover 12x20? The SSXL is would be a first choice, but the $1000 center filter has me scared off a bit.

Thanks!

Gary


At one time I had 210mm, 240mm, 270mm and 305mm Kowa Computars. I sold the 210mm some time ago and am planning to sell the 240mm and 270mm because the only ULF camera I have now is a 20X24 with a 12X20 reducing back.

Briefly, the 210mm Computar covers 11X14 or 7X17, but just barely. The 240mm Computar covers 7X17 nicely and just covers 8X20. The 270mm Computar covers 8X20 nicely and just covers 12X20. The 305mm Computar covers 12X20 with two or three inches of movement.

The computars are great lenses for the formats they cover because of their wide coverage for the size. They basically have about the same amount of useful coverage as Protar V but have wider aperture and generally cost less. But they cost less mainly because not many people are aware of their great covering power.

Sandy King

Brickbird
08-15-2009, 09:18 PM
Adam at SK Grimes is currently starting on a special lens for me. I have had 9 Fuji 300mm lenses in barrels that were some kind of lens for making separations, or so I was told. I sent one of them to Adam and he is putting it in a Copal #3. I tried one out in a universal lens holder and put it on my 12x20 Lotus before I gave him the go-ahead. It looked like she would cover wide open. I'll know in about 6-8 weeks. If it covers and has fairly even light coverage I will probably have some made up for anyone interested in a nice wide angle 300mm lens for 12x20. I will keep all informed about the progress. If one does not want a shutter I will consider selling some of them as is in barrel. They all have front and back lens caps and are all mint. These Fuji lenses are not marked with any identification except for a sticker with the Fuji name and part of a bar code. Other than that I am clueless but will be thrilled if it works when Grimes is finished...................TW

coriana6jp
08-16-2009, 08:49 AM
Thanks for the information Sandy! I will keep my eyes open for either a 270mm or a 305mm Computar.

TW, please keep me informed how your 300mm project works out. Those types of lenses are fairly easy to come by here.

Thanks All!!


Gary

Mike1234
08-16-2009, 01:28 PM
Gary,

I don't know if you can use a barrel-mount lens but... I have a near mint 240mm f/11 Rodenstock Apo-Graphigon available. Coatings and aperture are flawless. It has a 78 angle of coverage producing an image circle of 392mm at infinity. I don't know if real-world coverage is any greater but maybe someone else here does. PM if you're interested.

Mike

TML74
08-16-2009, 03:24 PM
Hello, I also have a 12x20 camera and I am also looking for a wide angle lens. Now, my larger lens is a 17'', so it is about 60 wide but I am looking for a much wider lens. I wonder if a 210 SSXL really cover the 12x20 size, I mean if we focus far away and not on the near plan ??? Sorry if my english is bad...
I am looking for a computar 305 for several months, so, I have sent a PM to TW to have more informations about this fuji lens and please M sandy king, if you sell your 305 computar... believe me you don't have to waste time to look for a buyer...

Thank you, Thierry Moenne-Loccoz.

Brickbird
08-16-2009, 04:53 PM
Thierry..........Sent you a PM

sanking
08-16-2009, 05:07 PM
Hello, I also have a 12x20 camera and I am also looking for a wide angle lens. Now, my larger lens is a 17'', so it is about 60 wide but I am looking for a much wider lens. I wonder if a 210 SSXL really cover the 12x20 size, I mean if we focus far away and not on the near plan ??? Sorry if my english is bad...
I am looking for a computar 305 for several months, so, I have sent a PM to TW to have more informations about this fuji lens and please M sandy king, if you sell your 305 computar... believe me you don't have to waste time to look for a buyer...

Thank you, Thierry Moenne-Loccoz.

Hi Thierry,

First, the 210 SSXL will indeed cover 12X20. Not only will it cover, but you will have an inch or two of movements. But it is a very large lens, and you must use it with the center filter.

If you are interested in my 270mm Computar or 305mm Computar please contact me by pm. You can even write in French if you like as I used to speak French fluently and can still read it well. I believe you are French, no?

Sandy

Robert Hall
08-16-2009, 08:34 PM
I use my 210 SSXL quite a bit. It may in fact need the center filter, but I don't use one. If anything I like the fall off on the edges. I focus it at 7 feet and then stop it down to f/64 for hyper-focal. I shot the horseshoe bend down in Page Az. (funny story on that one for the LF Forum BTW) I used my 12x20 and the prints are some of my more recent favorites. Frankly, I would give up my 12x20 if I didn't have such a lens.

Cheers,

scootermm
08-16-2009, 09:53 PM
I use a 355mm G-Claron and a 19" Goerz Red Dot Artar.

For the first few years of shooting with 12x20 I used the 355 G exclusively. The last few months I've been using the 19" RDA for a vast majority of shots (interiors still work better with the G claron) ... both cover the format surprisingly well and are great lenses, couple inches of coverage with the 355 and multiple inches with the 19" .
I found the 19" RDA for about $175 on ebay. Its barrel mounted but easy to manage with F90 and a lenscap.

coriana6jp
08-17-2009, 09:16 PM
Thanks Again for all the helpful information. It seems like the 305mm Computar or the 210mm SSXL are the best or really only two choices for really wide angles lenses on the format. Everyone's helpful comments have pretty much confirmed what I had thought. Looks like I am going to have to save up some for a while. Since I already have a 355mm G-claron, the 305 might be a little bit too close. The 210mm SSXL will probably be it, after I replenish the bank account.

Robert, I read your story very funny. I looked at your gallery very very impressive stuff!

Thanks Again.

Gary

Brickbird
08-17-2009, 09:39 PM
I had forgotten that I have 3 Konica Hexagon GRII lenses and one of them is a 300mm. A printing company had given them to me years ago when they THREW AWAY their process camera. I put the 300 on a board and mounted it up yesterday on the 12x20. It just missed covering to the corners wide open but it would allow for some 11x19 nice contacts. These monster process cameras are still around but becoming scarce so if anyone has the interest you might call around your areas and check the larger printing plants to see if they still have some of those beasts in their warehouses. The lens was razor sharp and I will expose some film soon with it and report back later.............TW

RobertP
08-20-2009, 07:58 PM
Don't forget about the very very affordable Kodak Ektanon 21 1/4" ..Razor sharp and covers 12x20. One of the best kept secrets in ULF.

Jim Fitzgerald
08-20-2009, 10:29 PM
Don't forget about the very very affordable Kodak Ektanon 21 1/4" ..Razor sharp and covers 12x20. One of the best kept secrets in ULF.

Robert, I agree! I have one for the 8x20 and an Ilex paragon 21 1/4" in mint condition for the 11x14. Great lenses that are sleepers and very cost effective!


Jim

sanking
08-20-2009, 11:03 PM
There are many great lenses that will cover 12X20 when you get to the 19-24" and longer range. Virtually any of the apo type lenses cover nicely stopped down. This includes Apo Tessars, Apo Ronars, etc, as well ad Goerz RDA. You can often find these in barrel for not a lot of money.

With 12X20, and any ULF format, the premium is for wide angle coverage. If you want wide angle for any of these formats, expect to pay a bundle for it. For the 8X20 and 12X20, $3000 or more for the SSXL or $2000 plus for the 270-290-300mm Protar Series V, Computar, etc.

Dagors used to be great values for ULF, but now days they are, IMO, quite expensive for what that deliver.


Sandy King