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keithwms
10-01-2009, 09:10 PM
Keith

that's interesting to hear that. I bought my Shen Hao 5x12 not long after they first came out, very nice camera. I asked if they could make a 4x10 reducing back as well, they said no. So has the situation changed?

Are you a Chinese speaker? I always found it difficult to deal with them because of the language barrier. I'd get replies back that made no sense.

Clayton

I will dig out my emails and forward my contact to you. Indeed there was a language barrier, but it wasn't too bad. I don't see why they wouldn't make the back up for you. But you could very easily buy the standard 4x10 back and slap it on a nice piece of wood...

clay nz
10-01-2009, 11:26 PM
I will dig out my emails and forward my contact to you. Indeed there was a language barrier, but it wasn't too bad. I don't see why they wouldn't make the back up for you. But you could very easily buy the standard 4x10 back and slap it on a nice piece of wood...

Thanks Keith, will be helpful.

I suspect now I know they will make custom pieces there was probably some miscommunication going on.

Clayton

clay nz
10-01-2009, 11:44 PM
Clayton... yes I want to have the option of making HUGE prints. In fact, I would like the option of making 4x8 or 4x10 foot prints with as much detail as is possible. That's not to say I'll make prints that large but I don't want to be limited by the lens(es). I'm not going to make contact prints.

Ok Mike, that makes all the difference. A lot of the time LF guys are talking about acceptable sharpness for contact prints, especially 8x10 and larger formats. I read lots of positive forum info about g claron coverage and sharpness, all the way up to 80 degrees cover. When I tried some of these lenses I was disappointed, over 65 degrees sharpness noticeably falls off. That's why Schneider lists the image circles they do but everyone says they can get lots more out of them. Sure you can but edge sharpness suffers when you enlarge.

I do modest enlargements of 5x12, usually in the 3- 5x range and the 210 g claron isn't good enough for me.

Clayton

Mike1234
10-02-2009, 12:54 AM
Clayton... So the G-Claron you had failed to hold respectable resolution on 15x36 inch prints from 5x12 negs? That's not what I'm looking for. What about the 210mm Apo Symmar? It's advertised coverage is 305mm which is only 20mm shy of the diagonal of 5x12 film. I'm hoping I can get an inch of rise with little or no noticible lower corner degradation on 5x12. Is that a pipe dream? If so then 4x10 is looking increasingly more appealing.

keithwms
10-02-2009, 11:34 AM
Clayton, here is the exchange I had by email with Zhang Fu Ming (zhangfmli@vip.sina.com) at Shen. N.b. payment was made by wire, they couldn't accept credit cards or paypal. There was a delay of a few weeks because my bank couldn't figure out how to write the name of the Chinese bank or the recipient's name.... even though I had the swift code etc! So, despite modern banking technology, it all came down to how to write the name of the bank or the company on some form there in China, so there was some nutty delay. But it worked out in the end, it just took some patience. Anyway the person at Shen was wonderful, see below.

As you see, my initial email (in bold) was a very simple inquiry.

~~~


Dear Sir,

Thank you for compliment!

A 5x8 reducing back for 410 will cost 180 USD.

Yours sincerely,

ZhangFuming
----- Original Message -----
From: Keith A. Williams <kwilliams@virginia.edu>
To: zhangfmli@vip.sina.com
Subject: 5x8 back for Shen Hao 4x10
Date: 09-03-14 02:16:26

Dear Sir/Madam:

Can you sell me a 5x8 back for my Shen-Hao 4x10 camera? I
already have a 5x7 back (I like it!), and was considering
modifying that to 5x8, but if they could make one then I'd buy
it happily at a reasonable price.

Thanks!

Keith

~~~


Dear Sir,

Thank you.

The shipping cost is 36 USD by EMS;

The bag bellow of 410 is 150 USD;

And the 5x8 reducing back for 410 is 180 USD.

The total amount will be 366 USD.

Yours sincerely,

ZhangFuming

~~~


Dear Sir,

We have got your payment, your orders will be shipped to you in 3 days.

Best regards,
------------------------------------------------
Yours sincerely,
ZhangFuming

keithwms
10-02-2009, 11:43 AM
Concerning lenses, I am thinking (guessing?) that the Bausch & Lomb anastigmat on my poco might well cover 5x12. It seems to overcover 8x10 substantially. Look out for inexpensive decrepit pocos with tele anastigmats! Incidentally the FL of mine is ~11". It converts as well, by removing the front element... but offhand I don't know what that does to the coverage.

Maybe I can try to measure the coverage if there is interest.

Mike: I was banging my head against the wall trying to find lenses to cover 5x12 and this is precisely why I opted for 4x10... I don't have Jim Galli's stash of lenses! The next biggest reason was the cost and availability of film. Turns out I later got a huge supply of 5" roll film, but nevertheless, I think it is undeniable that there are many more options for lenses and film for 4x10. If you need movements I think you will find 5x12 very restricted indeed. And honestly with 4x10 I find that I am using way more shift than I thought I would. I mean, inches of shift.... the aspect ratio seems to make me notice perspective convergence much more strongly.... simply because lines along the long axis are never too far from the frame edges. I can show you examples of what happened when I shot the 4x10 with inadequate coverage whilst trying to tackle this problem.

Mike1234
10-02-2009, 03:24 PM
Keith... thank you for sharing your experiences.

Yes, I may find that I use more movements than I expect to. I just don't recall using that much a zillion years ago when shooting 4x5 but, as you stated, the longer format will likely increase the need for corrections. So... 4x10 continues to look more appealing for my needs.

Regarding film for 5x12: I know I can use the 5" Kodak aerial B&W pan film (Jim Galli does and I'm assuming you do) and I'm pretty sure the color neg film will work too. I believe that stuff has no orange backing which might actually make scanning easier though this would likely cause serious problems trying to print conventionally. However, since I intend to always print digitally (please forgive my blaspheny, fellow APUGers) this isn't a problem. I've posted inquiries about the aerial color neg film but no one seems to have used it for pictorial imagery.

keithwms
10-02-2009, 03:44 PM
I haven't used the 5" colour neg, but it interests me greatly. Maybe I will get some and play. I have a project that really calls for maskless capture, and so far all I have is the maskless c41 'digibase' stuff which, frankly is not really only soso. And anyway they told me they couldn't supply digibase larger than 120.

Anyway yes I use the 5" aerial panatomic-x and it is very sweet. Been meaning to check it out in rodinal but haven't yet.

Mike1234
10-02-2009, 05:18 PM
Keith... Please post your results if you try the the B&W in Rodinal and/or aerial color neg film. I'm sure I'm not he only one keenly interested.

clay nz
10-02-2009, 05:44 PM
I've used 5 inch aerial colour neg in my camera with no problems. The film had an orange mask the same as regular C41, I think it was Agfa but would have to check.

Keith thanks for the posting the emails here, yes I dealt with the same guy. I no longer have my email exchange with him. One thing I'd be concerned about is getting the film plane position correct for the holders. Did you send them a holder? My 5x12 was built for S&S holders which they had a set of. The 4x10 holders I have are Canham, do you know what holders your camera was set up for?

Clayton

keithwms
10-02-2009, 06:55 PM
Clayton I didn't send them the holders, I just told them they were Chamonix holders. I bought those first, before the back, because I wanted to be sure that I'd like them. (They're ok, nicely made, do wish the darkslides had proper handles though) I did do a quick check with the 5x8 holders on my 5x7 back and the results seemed ok, fog notwithstanding. But honestly I naively assumed that the registry wouldn't be much of an issue because I figured I'd go straight to f/22 for purposes of optimal coverage. (That was before I had the 150 SW) Perhaps I should've been more concerned... but all's well that ends well: I got the 150 and saw no registry problems with the lens wide open.

Mike1234
10-10-2009, 12:45 PM
Resurrecting an old thread... finding a 210mm lens that covers 5x12 ENLARGED AND SHARPLY TO THE CORNERS w/ a bit of wiggle room.

Okay, now I'm getting really frustrated. It seems that there are only a handfull of 210's capable of filling my needs (okay wants). I want the option of making razer sharp 8x enlargements. The candidates are the 210 SS XL (way too pricey for me), 210 SA (way too big/heavy), 210 Computar/Kyvytar/Kowa (hard to find), 210 SS HM (still somewhat too big/heavy), and 210 Sironar-W (darned hard to find).

I bought a 210 G-Claron then learned it won't hold up to enlargements. Then I bought a 210 Apo Symmar only to discover it BARELY covers 8x10 straight on. If I stick with 5x12 these will both be available for sale.

I'm getting so pi$$ed off that I'm very nearly ready to say to heck with 5x12 and buy a 4x10 even though I really want to shoot 5x12.

ARRRGH!!

clay nz
10-11-2009, 02:56 PM
Mike

there's a few others to consider. The early model Fuji 210W will do it, the hard part is figuring out all the variations of these lenses. There's about 4 versions, the one with the most cover has lettering on the outside of the barrel. I have a late model multicoated version, sharpness to the edges is great but it clips the corners slightly. I was going to modify the barrel to fix it by trimming the outer lip back a bit. I've never done it because I always crop my negs to 4x12 as I prefer the longer aspect ratio.

I've tested a 210 Graphic Kowa and it was excellent too.

I suspect there are a few more lenses worth looking at that aren't too hard on the budget.

Clayton

clay nz
10-11-2009, 03:00 PM
Before someone suggests it, I have a Dagor in that focal length, series 3. Centre sharpness is good but edges are rubbish compared to modern optics when enlarged 4x

Clayton

keithwms
10-11-2009, 03:05 PM
Mike, what you are discovering is precisely why I went for 4x10... well, lenses plus film availability. The other thing is that 4x10 is close enough to 5x8, 5x7 and 4x5 that there are adapters that make sense.... if you don't want to shoot pano only. Sure, I admit that I'd rather contact print a 5x12 neg than a 4x10 one, but...

Mike1234
10-11-2009, 03:21 PM
Mike

there's a few others to consider. The early model Fuji 210W will do it, the hard part is figuring out all the variations of these lenses. There's about 4 versions, the one with the most cover has lettering on the outside of the barrel. I have a late model multicoated version, sharpness to the edges is great but it clips the corners slightly. I was going to modify the barrel to fix it by trimming the outer lip back a bit. I've never done it because I always crop my negs to 4x12 as I prefer the longer aspect ratio.

I've tested a 210 Graphic Kowa and it was excellent too.

I suspect there are a few more lenses worth looking at that aren't too hard on the budget.

Clayton

Clayton, thank you. I've been researching/reading and have found that the 200-ish FL is just about the most difficult to find that will cover 5x12 comfortably. I found a m- 210 Kowa with perfect glass in a late all black Copal for $595. I'm tempted to pull the trigger on that one even though it's probably overpriced. However, I don't want to buy yet another lens that I'll just have to re-sell.


Mike, what you are discovering is precisely why I went for 4x10... well, lenses plus film availability. The other thing is that 4x10 is close enough to 5x8, 5x7 and 4x5 that there are adapters that make sense.... if you don't want to shoot pano only. Sure, I admit that I'd rather contact print a 5x12 neg than a 4x10 one, but...

Keith, I'm not too worried about 5x12 film availablity. Kodak has 5" aerial film in B&W, color neg, color transparency, and IR. As others are already doing I'll just cut it to length. I don't think I'll bother with multiple backs because I don't think I can carry all that around with me. When I want shorter formats I'll just crop off the ends. Yes, it's wasteful but hey, life is too short to worry about such things.

I want the "option" of making B-I-G prints even though I'll likely only make big prints. It's my way of considering future options. :)

keithwms
10-11-2009, 03:38 PM
Well, I'd be happy to join in some purchases of 5" roll film... I already have the pan-x and wouldn't mind stocking up more, but I'd especially like some colour 5" stuff.

Mike1234
10-11-2009, 05:31 PM
If I do finally buy a 5x12 then I'll definitely be in the market for 5" aerial color neg film.

Bruce A Cahn
10-23-2009, 07:23 PM
The best 210 I have used is the Super Symmar XL, which has enormous coverage.

TheFlyingCamera
10-23-2009, 08:41 PM
I have a 210 Wollensak Graphic Raptar that more than covers 5x12. It is a direct fit into an Alphax shutter. It would probably fit a Copal 1 with adaptation by SK Grimes.