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jgjbowen
01-23-2010, 02:03 PM
Sandy,

Life is all about the journey.....go for it!

John

ic-racer
01-23-2010, 02:11 PM
In 2000 I got a 4x5 enlarger (but only had cameras going up to 6x6cm). Then I was arranging my old folder collection and realized I could re-spool some 120 to use in the 620 cameras. I also had a 100mm enlarger lens I was not using. This got me into 6x9cm. I even went and bought a third Kodak Tourist, just to get one with a little better lens.

I liked the 6x9cm so much that I wound up getting a Horseman VH-R. From there it was a no-brainer to jump to 4x5 with the Horseman 45FA.

Then, just for fun I restored my old Century 8x10 and did contacts prints. I got pretty frustrated with contact printing and got an 8x10 enlarger. From there I went on to get a modern 8x10 and went with the Shen Hao 8x10.

Allen Friday
01-25-2010, 04:21 PM
I started doing "serious" photography with a Mamiya 7. I appreciated the big negatives, compared to 35mm. I found that I was constantly enlarging them up to my favorite size of 16x20. Then I started doing contact prints with 4x5. I fell in love with the quality of contact prints. That got me doing platinum prints, which led to 5x7 and 8x10. I continued to enjoy the size of my enlargements at 16x20, however. But the quality just wasn't as good as a contact print, and I didn't enjoy making enlarged negatives in the darkroom or on the computer. The only solution was a bigger, in-camera negative, which led me to build a 16x20 and then a 20x24 camera.

To me there is nothing as beautiful as a well made contact print, in either silver or alt. process. While I still shoot a lot of 8x10 and 5x7, sometimes the subject or project calls for a big print, and hence, a big negative.

jgjbowen
01-25-2010, 05:14 PM
OK, I have to ask.....

How do you "larger than 16x20" guys develop your negatives? Do you use trays or tubes or ???? If trays do you stack them?

One of the reasons I stopped at 7x17/8x20 was a lack of tray space in my darkroom sinks.

Curious minds want to know. Thanks!

Allen Friday
01-25-2010, 06:31 PM
I develop my 16x20 and 20x24 negatives in Jobo drums on a CCP-2 processor. There are two different drums which accommodate 16x20, and one drum which will take 20x24.

As for prints, I process alt. process prints in a single tray. I use one tray for all steps, pouring out the used chemicals and adding the new. I even wash the print in the tray. The big sheets of watercolor paper tear if picked up wet. When the wash is done, I tilt the tray at 45 degrees and let the print drain for about 1/2 hour. I can then transfer the print to a screen for drying without tearing the print. For full sheets of watercolor paper, I use smooth-bottomed trays designed to go under washing machines. They are about $20 at Home Depot.

jgjbowen
01-25-2010, 07:32 PM
I develop my 16x20 and 20x24 negatives in Jobo drums on a CCP-2 processor. There are two different drums which accommodate 16x20, and one drum which will take 20x24.

As for prints, I process alt. process prints in a single tray. I use one tray for all steps, pouring out the used chemicals and adding the new. I even wash the print in the tray. The big sheets of watercolor paper tear if picked up wet. When the wash is done, I tilt the tray at 45 degrees and let the print drain for about 1/2 hour. I can then transfer the print to a screen for drying without tearing the print. For full sheets of watercolor paper, I use smooth-bottomed trays designed to go under washing machines. They are about $20 at Home Depot.

Thanks Allen

2F/2F
01-25-2010, 11:12 PM
I have developed my 12x20 pinhole pix in 16x20 trays, and in a print drum, rotated by hand on a Jobo Manual Roller Base that I got off the shelf at Freestyle. Both seem to work all right. The drum is nice because all you have to do in the dark is load it. However, I think tray processing in general gives you more room for manipulation via standing development and other changes in agitation regimen.

FWIW, all I have shot in this format has been Efke 25.

Zebra
01-26-2010, 12:08 AM
I process my negatives in a tray up to four at a time. I have also used a jobo and enjoyed it but when I am working through a trip of negatives four at at time bites into them at a quicker pace. My pt/pd prints are all done in trays although I use several trays. I built my sinks to accomodate my negs so that was taken care of in reverse order. Of course the wet plate is done with a dip tank and then a dedicated tray for the fix.

Monty

nick mulder
01-26-2010, 12:49 AM
This thread sure is interesting...

Seems to me like there is a meaningful jump from say to 11x14", 7x17" etc... to the 16x20" plus sizes, not to say further categorization is required but it is a consideration above and beyond just the usual "got holder, got camera, got lens with coverage, got supply of film" check list.

Allen Friday
01-26-2010, 01:49 PM
Monty,

Jobo development of single negatives does get extremely boring and it does take a lot of time. I solved that problem by getting a second Jobo. (Albeit, it took about a year to find a second Jobo at a good price--I'm basically pretty cheap.) When developing film from a trip or a studio session, I will run the two machines at the same time, starting one negative five minutes before the second. I wash the film in a film/print washer, so as soon as a tube is done with the fix and 30 second rinse stage, a new tube with a new negative goes on the machine.

I never could get consistent results with big negatives in trays. I would scratch one or have uneven skies. Plus, I like being able to work in the light.

I think trays are great, if you are good at it. Unfortunately, I'm not.

sanking
01-26-2010, 02:38 PM
I develop 12X20 and 20X24 film in print drums on Unicolor motor bases. I prefer this to tray agitation because my work space is relatively small and 20X24 trays would take up most of the space. Plus, rotary development in tubes gives very even development, which is one of the reasons Phil Davis promoted it for film testing.

Sandy King

jgjbowen
01-26-2010, 02:38 PM
Monty,

So you are developing 20x24 negatives up to 4 at a time in trays.....you da man!

Allen,

Jobo 3063 drums or some other size?

Once you get to the ULF sizes stuff starts to get a litte crazy. I have learned a LOT from other ULF practitioners when it came to stuff like trays (from a seed company, no less) negative storage isues, print storage issues, jogging strollers to cart gear, etc.

Thanks to everyone for sharing,

Kerik
01-26-2010, 04:41 PM
After moving from MF to 4x5 to 8x10 in a couple of years, in 1992 I bought a Korona 7x17 with 3 holders that was my main camera until 2000. In the ensuing time, I had my first Korona stolen, replaced it with a second, then replaced that with a Wisner 7x17. I also picked up a couple of 11x14 cameras, but never really took to that format in a big way. Along the way I collected a silly number of great lenses (when they were still relatively cheap), but the most used on the 7x17 were a 14" Dagor, a 30cm Carl Zeiss Dagor and a 450M Nikkor. In 2000 I bought a 14x17 Anthony and Scovill and a year or so after that I bought a Lotus 12x20 (the finest view camera I ever owned). It soon became clear that too many formats was having a negative impact on my work, so I sold the 7x17 and 12x20 cameras and did a ton of work with the 14x17, a lot of it with an 18" Verito that looks like crap but makes a beautiful image. In 2004 I became hooked on the smell of ether when wet plate collodion took over my life. Since then, the vast majority of my work has been done with an 8x10 Kodak Masterview and a Derogy portrait petzval lens. I occasionally pull out the 14x17 or 11x14, but not very often. So, I've been to ULF and back again.

Allen Friday
01-26-2010, 07:56 PM
The Jobo 3063 works well for developing ULF negatives. I use it for 20x24, 16x20 or (2) 12x20s. The 2850 with the 2830 extension tube works for 16x20 or (1) 12x20.

I have acquired a lot of tubes over the years. I used to bid on the auction site on about every tube that came up. Every once in a while, I would win at a very low price. For some reason, people tend not to bid in mid to late December, which is when I had the most success getting things cheaply. Put in a low bid and forget about it. If you win, great. If not, there will be another one later. Patience, patience, patience.

Allen Friday
01-26-2010, 08:12 PM
One more thing, the Jobo tubes are not the best for pyro developers. They have ridges that run the length of the tubes on the inside. The ridges create lines on the negatives. There are work arounds, however. I know of several ULF workers who use the tubes with pyro. Personally, I like the results with D-76, so I never spent the time to perfect the work around.

nick mulder
01-26-2010, 08:24 PM
One more thing, the Jobo tubes are not the best for pyro developers. They have ridges that run the length of the tubes on the inside. The ridges create lines on the negatives. There are work arounds, however.

Finally someone who can corroborate on this!

Yup, working with PMK and a Jobo I ended up with concentrations of stain on the base side where the ribs sit on the film. Almost invisible on the neg, but they ruin highlight areas in contact prints exposed with UV ...

I haven't used it yet but apparently Richard Sullivans Rollo Pyro is an answer...

totalamateur
01-26-2010, 09:01 PM
I'm not all the way down the spiral yet but-

I found Sandy King's description of the carbon print process, and thought WOW, how cool is that. But, being a d***$l guy at the time, I didn't have any negaitves to carbon print. Digital Negs seemed Cheezy, and altogether disingenious. So I started slumming the auciton site for a view camera that would make a negative big enough to carbon print and landed on a eastman No.1 8x10 with no lens, back, GG, or holders, and lots of leaks in the bellows.

Next I picked up an old 170mm lens that didn't quite cover, but was close enough (didn't know anything about lens coverage at the time.) and figured out how expensive 8x10 film was, so I landed on this site looking for instructions to make film a la the silver gelatin emulsion forum.

Made a few batches of jello and decided I was tired of Iso 2, and my home-made back and film holders were getting tiresome, I picked up a back, holders, and film, only too remember that (Doh!) my 170mm doesn't cover at infinity.

So, while I was slumming for an 8x10 lens that I liked, I picked up a calumet 4x5 to play with and really got to shooting. Learned how to print, that buying film was the way to go, confirmed my suspicion that there was something special about contact prints. SO

about the time I picked up the first kodak lens when I still knew squat about LF lenses I picked up a Kodak 24" F6 for cheap, thinking it'd maybe fit the Kodak view (not by a foot). But it does cover about 2 feet, maybe a hair more. SOO...

While still looking for a lens for the 8x10, I've got Bellows in the works for a 20x24, and in a couple of weekends a buddy is coming over with a router table to make plate and film holders and a back.

Why? because I have the lens to do it and I like big contact prints.

Here I am, 3 formats later - and I still haven't made a dang carbon print.

Allen Friday
01-26-2010, 10:24 PM
I'm not all the way down the spiral yet but-


.

It is not down the spiral, it is up the spiral:

The winding Stair

My Soul. I summon to the winding ancient stair;
Set all your mind upon the steep ascent,
Upon the broken, crumbling battlement,
Upon the breathless starlit air,
'Upon the star that marks the hidden pole;
Fix every wandering thought upon
That quarter where all thought is done:
Who can distinguish darkness from the soul

...

I am content to follow to its source
Every event in action or in thought;
Measure the lot; forgive myself the lot!
When such as I cast out remorse
So great a sweetness flows into the breast
We must laugh and we must sing,
We are blest by everything,
Everything we look upon is blest.

William Butler Yeats

Jim Fitzgerald
01-27-2010, 12:59 AM
I'm not all the way down the spiral yet but-

I found Sandy King's description of the carbon print process, and thought WOW, how cool is that. But, being a d***$l guy at the time, I didn't have any negaitves to carbon print. Digital Negs seemed Cheezy, and altogether disingenious. So I started slumming the auciton site for a view camera that would make a negative big enough to carbon print and landed on a eastman No.1 8x10 with no lens, back, GG, or holders, and lots of leaks in the bellows.

Next I picked up an old 170mm lens that didn't quite cover, but was close enough (didn't know anything about lens coverage at the time.) and figured out how expensive 8x10 film was, so I landed on this site looking for instructions to make film a la the silver gelatin emulsion forum.

Made a few batches of jello and decided I was tired of Iso 2, and my home-made back and film holders were getting tiresome, I picked up a back, holders, and film, only too remember that (Doh!) my 170mm doesn't cover at infinity.

So, while I was slumming for an 8x10 lens that I liked, I picked up a calumet 4x5 to play with and really got to shooting. Learned how to print, that buying film was the way to go, confirmed my suspicion that there was something special about contact prints. SO

about the time I picked up the first kodak lens when I still knew squat about LF lenses I picked up a Kodak 24" F6 for cheap, thinking it'd maybe fit the Kodak view (not by a foot). But it does cover about 2 feet, maybe a hair more. SOO...

While still looking for a lens for the 8x10, I've got Bellows in the works for a 20x24, and in a couple of weekends a buddy is coming over with a router table to make plate and film holders and a back.

Why? because I have the lens to do it and I like big contact prints.

Here I am, 3 formats later - and I still haven't made a dang carbon print.

Carbon printing is what I do all the time now. Start with 4x5 or like I did 8x10 to get your feet wet with the mechanics. Take a workshop if you can and have at it. Great process and it is cheap! Best prints I've ever made. When you go larger it get's interesting. 11x14 and 8x20 carbons are as big as I go for the moment.

Jim

nick mulder
01-27-2010, 01:42 AM
Hello all,

Assuming you use the Autotype papers what are you guys doing about the discontinuation ? I'm keen to get into copper photogravure which as I understand it uses G25 carbon paper.

The same one (?):

http://www.macdermidautotype.com/AADocume.nsf/0/2759AC9F75D5DAA580256E680050C3C4/$File/G25%20Pigment%20Paper.pdf