Some Kodak B&W Film Deletions

[clayne]

I've not used any of the Fuji products in B&W, only Kodak and Ilford. Oh, and the three of rolls of Foma that was missed by the QA department. Someone else got to shoot the other seven rolls I bought.

Mike

Mike, I highly recommend you try some Neopan or Acros. Neopan 400 and 1600 are classics - with the added bonus that both have the same processing times allowing mixed 400/1600 processing.

Very beautiful films.

[Mahler_one]

No complaints here about Kodak's quality-except their Kodachrome labs. (Not Dwayne's) It got so bad at one point I stopped shooting Kodachrome until I found good independent processing.

A woman I used to work with had worked for Kodak for many years. She assembled copiers for a number of years. She told me that if the assembly manual was not open to the page related to the step being performed, it was grounds for immediate dismissal. No matter if a person had done the step thousands of times before.
Sounds draconian, but it demonstrates the disciplined approach to quality that Kodak was known for.
When I worked as a QA inspector I always drilled into trainees the need to always check the print, always check the paperwork-take nothing for granted. There was no guarantee a change notice would get to us.
So I understand completely why Kodak did things that way.

In the mid 70's I worked for a company that made aerospace electrical connectors. The products went into aircraft, missiles, etc., for the military, into commercial aircraft, and into the anti-lock braking systems of one of the major large truck manufacturers, and a standard line was offered as well. I was amazed and sometimes appalled at what went out of there.

One day I got wind of a large order that a new customer had made. The entire order had been rejected by that customer, with a detailed report of every defect and out of conformance condition found in the sample parts. Boxes of rejected parts were stacked in hallways outside the QC office, there were so many. They had never seen anything like that before.

The customer was Kodak. My company's solution? Don't sell to Kodak.

Made me proud to be a user of Kodak products.

I already had no pride in my company, so nothing changed there.

What a great story...thanks very much for taking the time to write down the details and share the story with us.

[mikebarger]

I'm sure they're great films, I just haven't learned everything I need to know about Tri-x 400 in 120 and HP5+ in 4x5. Since I'm a slow learner, I'll keep focused on these.

Mike

[Ektagraphic]

There are various Kodak colour transparency films to go as well, I'll try to find a link to a web page as it's quite a lot of information.

Any update for this?

[2F/2F]

I was in Freestyle today. Nobody working there had any idea about the loss of TXP 120 and 220.

All they said about Fuji Reala 120 was that they have not had it in a while.

[nickrapak]

Any update for this?

http://www.apug.org/forums/936103-post6.html

[PKM-25]

After reading all the "scratches or defects on my film" post, the last thing I would waste my money on, is second rate film. I have been tempted to try some Fuji B&W but seem to recall it curls quite a bit. Maybe I am wrong but its what I remember reading here, somewhere. Anyway, it boils down to Kodak or Ilford for me. Kodak would be first choice. I have used it longer and its made here. However, Ilford is priced lower sometimes and its also a reliable film, and I also like it.

Price is important but I didn't buy expensive high quality gear to run experimental film through.

Agree 100%, I just had too many issues with Efke, black spots on my IR820, flecks of missing emulsion on KB-25, no good, especially when using it in a paid scenario. Kodak, Ilford, no issues, I feel secure in using it, and I don't need the distraction of feeling insecure about a medium I use.....that is like playing a guitar that goes out of tune all the time, you just can't get your mojo on like that.

10 Pro Packs of 320 ordered and on the way, I only have one 220 back for my blads, so that ought to do the trick.

[2F/2F]

Fuji is right up there with Ilford and Kodak, Fotch and PKM-25. IME, there is no reason at all to discount it for reasons of quality (just qualities, like with all films). I generally do not like the "look" of Fuji b/w film, but I do still use it (mostly the 100 stand developed, or at least pulled, for for night pix, due to its amazing reciprocity maintenance during long exposures).

[viridari]

Fompapan 200 --------- £1.97

I was under the impression that this was an extinct species. Is it just not available in the US anymore?

[David A. Goldfarb]

Fomapan 200 has changed its name a few times from "Fomapan 200T" (which Kodak apparently didn't like), to "Foma Creativ 200," to whatever it is now--Fomapan 200 I think.

[Ian Grant]

David, viridari is partially correct the film has had to be re-formulated because a component chemical used in the emulsion is no longer manufactured, but this is a temporary hiatus as Foma have been reported as testing the newer version which is due to be produced fairly soon.

Meanwhile some (most) suppliers have run out of stock.

Ian

[David A. Goldfarb]

That's right. I haven't ordered it in a while, and I'd forgotten that that was still going on.

[aldevo]

I forgot: Ilford is intelligent: they adapted their coating machine to make small amount of films: that's the case of Pan F, SFX and Maybe Delta 3200 that are coated in small quantities, when stocks are depleted. No big stock, they sell everything, and then they do not discontinue anything...

Ilford not discontinuing anything?

How about more or less everything Kentmere ever sold?

[aldevo]

Why should I be loyal to any one manufacturer? My money should go to a company that gives me what I want. The product itself is part of what I want, but the peace of mind that my go-to film will be around 5-10 years from now is definitely part of the equation.

Kodak seems to be playing slash & burn policy with its film products. This doesn't give me any peace of mind.

Ilford seems to have figured out how to succeed in this shrinking market. I might not be seeing things for what they are, but I personally believe that if I switch from TMAX400 to Delta 400, I'll still be able to buy Delta 400 in 10 years (let's revisit this thread then and see if I'm right or not).

For my purposes, comparing the two, Kodak doesn't give me any advantage over Ilford except for about a 40 cent lower price per roll for its T grain 400 speed film. But I wouldn't bet money that TMY2 will still be around in 5 years, based on Kodak's willingness to "consolidate".

Kodak isn't fighting for my money. It's discontinuing products that I like to buy. Ilford hasn't done that to me yet.

All statements on the financial health of Ilford are purely speculative as they do not release any financial statements.

Let's also keep in mind that Ilford has been dumping the former Kentmere's product line right and left making all sorts of pronouncements regarding material availability as justification that not everybody finds particularly convincing.

[Ian Grant]

All statements on the financial health of Ilford are purely speculative as they do not release any financial statements.

Let's also keep in mind that Ilford has been dumping the former Kentmere's product line right and left making all sorts of pronouncements regarding material availability as justification that not everybody finds particularly convincing.

So it's knock Ilford now is it ?

Those of us who went on the Ilford factory tour 14-15 months ago were given very frank information by the Ilford management on why some Kentmere products couldn't be made at Mobberley.

Simon Galley has posted similar information on this website about the discontinued Kentmere products and most are being replaced by alternatives.

All companies in the UK have to file financial returns to Companies House and anyone can pay to receive a copy of those accounts.

Ian

[aldevo]

So it's knock Ilford now is it ?

Those of us who went on the Ilford factory tour 14-15 months ago were given very frank information by the Ilford management on why some Kentmere products couldn't be made at Mobberley.

Simon Galley has posted similar information on this website about the discontinued Kentmere products and most are being replaced by alternatives.

All companies in the UK have to file financial returns to Companies House and anyone can pay to receive a copy of those accounts.

Ian

You cannot obtain financial returns for Ilford Photo, specifically.

You can obtain returns for Harman Technology Limited but this would include information beyond the immediate scope of the Ilford Photo operation, such as Harman Photo as well as the licensing turnover they receive from Oji Paper, Ltd in Japan for use of the Ilford name.

As the returns only cost £1.00, I think I'll purchase them nonetheless.

[aldevo]

You cannot obtain financial returns for Ilford Photo, specifically.

You can obtain returns for Harman Technology Limited but this would include information beyond the immediate scope of the Ilford Photo operation, such as Harman Photo as well as the licensing turnover they receive from Oji Paper, Ltd in Japan for use of the Ilford name.

As the returns only cost £1.00, I think I'll purchase them nonetheless.

Well, it looks like I've fallen victim to some terminology differences between the UK and USA.:D

I ordered the companies "Annual Return", dated 30/9/2009 but this includes nothing other than a statement of the company directors, total shares outstanding, and their ownership among the partners.

But, at the very least, I can tell you that there are 6 equal shareholders and that Simon Galley is one of them.

It appears the most recent full financial statements are dated for 31/12/2008 and as that is no longer a timely read, I'll wait until March when the company should file for 2009.

Stay tuned?

[Scott_Sheppard]

Hello Everybody:

I just interviewed Scott DiSabato from Eastman Kodak about this topic.

Here is the APUG link:

http://www.apug.org/forums/forum38/54750-apug-partnership-inside-analog-photo-radio-tv-network-33.html#post942345

This should clear up some questions people have.

Enjoy

Scott

[clayne]

Hello Everybody:

I just interviewed Scott DiSabato from Eastman Kodak about this topic.

Here is the APUG link:

http://www.apug.org/forums/forum38/54750-apug-partnership-inside-analog-photo-radio-tv-network-33.html#post942345

This should clear up some questions people have.

Enjoy

Scott

Scott, I appreciate that you connected with Kodak but I think in your shows you need to ask harder questions to people. The interviews tend to be too free-flowed with no hard questions being asked. As a listener I find myself sometimes tuning the show out when listening to it and not intently listening because I'm not learning anything new by giving the interviewee an easy road to take.

I mean seriously, I just listened to the interview with Stephen Schaub, for instance, and he was basically dissing TXP, 220, etc. while at the same time advocating the use of non-optical/non-darkroom printing and telling me that black and white film doesn't matter 99% of the time and I won't see a difference compared to C-41 color? I realize that he wasn't saying it as an absolute truth, but as a general recommendation to Joe Blow film user, he was. Yes, this is going to irritate people hearing something that the majority of us on this site know as absolutely not true.

[Anon Ymous]

Hello Everybody:

I just interviewed Scott DiSabato from Eastman Kodak about this topic...

At about 19:20 Scott DiSabato says:


But again, we continue to have exciting news. Even this year, we'll have a product launch, which we'll be talking about in the next few weeks.

Sounds interesting.