Removing Spotone ink from print

[Bill Burk]

I found the instruction sheet from Retouch Methods Co. Inc. Chatham NJ 1975.

There's a paragraph "FOR REMOVING RETOUCHING" it recommends plain water for light tone removal. For dark tone it recommends 8 drops of ammonia to 4 ounces of water. Apply and blot up, then apply plain water and blot up.

Ian, your memory isn't totally off. Sodium carbonate is mentioned, but it's recommended for preparing the surface of hardened prints to take spotone.

[Ian Grant]

Sodium Bicarbonate Bill, not Carbonate, the pH is different, actually I've seen recommendations to us Alka-Seltzer tablets.

Ian

[scinysnaps]

What he said.

Same as what he said too..

[RalphLambrecht]

It's a good thing I'm a packrat, I can't throw anything away...

My 1958 data sheet reads: "Use only plain water for a light tone removal. For lightening dark tone retouching, use the ammonia/water solution [3 to 8 drops of 10% ammonia in 1 oz water], and then washes of plain water".

The 1988 data sheet reads: "For lightening any retouching use only plain water applied with a clean brush. The longer the water remains on the spot, the lighter the retouching. For a darker tone removal use the Alka-Seltzer solution in place of the plain water."

These are from the data sheets that have the drop-by-drop mixing charts to match various paper/developer colors.

Reinhold

www.classicBWphoto.com
If that doesn't work, try: http://mysite.verizon.net/res14rg7y/

Reinhold and Bill

You guys must have the better instruction sheet. I have posted mine on:

http://www.darkroomagic.com/temp/spotonehandbook.pdf

Do me the favor and take a look if it looks anything like yours. Mine is not dated, and I can't find anything about ammonia on there. Maybe, I'm just not seeing it. If yours is different, I would be very interested to get a copy of it. Any chance to scan it?

Thanks for the help.

[Reinhold]

Ralph,

On your sheet, 3rd column, just above "GOOD BRUSHES", is the exact same paragraph as I quoted from my 1899 sheet.

I find it interesting that sometime between 1975 (Bill's sheet) and 1988 (our sheets), Retouch Methods changed their recommendations from ammonia to Alka-Seltzer. I wonder why...

My scanner is buried at the moment, I'll try to post the 1975 sheet later.

Reinhold

[Reinhold]

Ralph, et all...

You'll notice that I have dyslexia.

1899 vs 1988. Grrrrrr

Reinhold

[RalphLambrecht]

Ralph,

On your sheet, 3rd column, just above "GOOD BRUSHES", is the exact same paragraph as I quoted from my 1899 sheet.

I find it interesting that sometime between 1975 (Bill's sheet) and 1988 (our sheets), Retouch Methods changed their recommendations from ammonia to Alka-Seltzer. I wonder why...

My scanner is buried at the moment, I'll try to post the 1975 sheet later.

Reinhold

Reinhold

Thanks for checking and pointing this out. I see it now. Looking forward to see the 1975 version. Where do you see the year on that sheet, by the way?

[Smudger]

For what it's worth, my 1983 leaflet specifies Alka-Seltzer for tone removal.
The date is below and to the left of the company's masthead,bottom right.

[Ian Grant]

For what it's worth, my 1983 leaflet specifies Alka-Seltzer for tone removal.
The date is below and to the left of the company's masthead,bottom right.



Ian, your memory isn't totally off. Sodium carbonate is mentioned, but it's recommended for preparing the surface of hardened prints to take spotone.

See Bill, my memories still good, it's at least 25 years since I bought my Spotone and read the instructions :D

Alka-Seltzer is Mainly Sodium Bicarbonate :)

Ian

[Marco B]

My 1958 data sheet reads: "Use only plain water for a light tone removal. For lightening dark tone retouching, use the ammonia/water solution [3 to 8 drops of 10% ammonia in 1 oz water], and then washes of plain water".



Alka-Seltzer is Mainly Sodium Bicarbonate :)

Ian

Guys, this is very useful additional info, as I was wondering how "dilute" the ammonia needed to be, which Reinhold cleared up. Actually, 3-8 drops of 10% ammonia sounds really dilute, if I am right 1oz is about 29ml. But if it works, it works...

Thanks also to Ian for clearing up the Aka-Seltzer thing, as I had never heard of it and doubt if the product is sold in the Netherlands. Of course, baking soda, sodium bicarbonate, is... ;)

[Ian Grant]

Marco, I'd be surprised if Alka-Seltzer isn't available in Holland, it's made by Bayer in Germany, it seems to be sold worldwide, particularly as it's listed on a US product – Spotone and has is very common in the UK. From what I remember it did speed up removal of Spotone.

“Alka-Seltzer is a combination of aspirin (acetylsalicylic acid), sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3), and citric acid” so useful if the retouching is a headache :D

Iab

[Marco B]

“Alka-Seltzer is a combination of aspirin (acetylsalicylic acid), sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3), and citric acid” so useful if the retouching is a headache :D

Iab

:D

[Reinhold]

Ralph,

Here's the 1958 Spotone instruction sheet.
It's a bit tattered, but readable.

They talk quite about using ammonia for negative retouching.

I'm still curious as to why they switched to Alka-Seltzer, is there any possible adverse reaction from ammonia on a photo emulsion???

Any chemists in the house?

Reinhold

[Ian Grant]

Ammonia might soften the emulsion it can also dissolve silver. It's often used to remove the silver sheen from the surface of old prints during restoration.

Ian

[RalphLambrecht]

Ralph,

Here's the 1958 Spotone instruction sheet.
It's a bit tattered, but readable....

Reinhold

Greatly appreciated. Thanks for the effort!

[Bill Burk]

Hi Marco,

I don't feel comfortable scanning the sheet and posting it, sorry to disappoint but you aren't missing much.

I wonder if ammonia was dropped from later sheets because it was considered bad for the print?

I found another reference in Hamilton Studios "the art of retouching," half the discussion of "REMOVAL OF DYE" is warning not to get too much dye on the print because it is "difficult to remove it with any degree of success"

The next paragraph suggests warm water and blotting - but this has to be done "immediately" before the dye soaks in. They also mention 1 drop ammonia 10 drops water 10% solution for darker spots.

Then they say the only other way to remove unwanted dye is bleach. They describe the companion to Spotone, Spotoff. In the later chapter on bleaching they talk about Spotoff and then they mention household Clorox 1 drop bleach to 10 drops water 10% - up to 50% if necessary. I don't think I will ever try bleaching, I don't think you should either. Complete washing is necessary afterwards if you cover a large area with bleach.

http://www.beefalobill.com/images/spotoff.jpg

I recently made it a habit to make two identical prints from each darkroom session. One to keep in my portfolio and the other to give away to friends. Now I think I'll make three - one extra to ditch when I ruin it by spotting it badly.