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hrst
02-23-2010, 04:10 PM
But well, killing them is a completely different matter than eating them! :D

wildbillbugman
02-23-2010, 04:42 PM
When I worked in a microbiology research lab I had to kill many mice,rats and rabbits. One of the most disturbing sounds I have ever heared is the final scream of a rabbit. That was 40 years ago. But it still haunts me. I just could not do that today.
Bill

Vaughn
02-23-2010, 05:23 PM
And what is interesting, Bill, is that I watched a weasel deliver the death-bite to a much bigger rabbit and then drag it off the dirt road (this was in the Redwoods). That rabbit did not make a sound.

Photo Engineer
02-23-2010, 05:26 PM
In science, we do not "kill" an animal, we "sacrifice" it.

PE

CRhymer
02-23-2010, 06:15 PM
Bill - for a quickie LD50 test you only need 2 mice and 24 hours! ;^)

Hello Kirk,

I prefer to use a cat. One only requires one. Actually the cat is half dead and half alive - bingo, LD50, every time, or at least until one makes a measurement. ;)

Bill, I agree, the sound of a dying rabbit is blood-curdling. Many years ago a fellow who was working for me dispatched a weasel by clubbing it with a 2x4. Now weasels don't usually hang around long enough to let this happen, but it was so preoccupied with killing the rabbit (actually it was a hare) that it neglected to watch for danger. There is probably a lesson of some sort in this.

Oh, and to keep on topic, interesting work Bill.

Cheers,
Clarence

Ray Rogers
02-23-2010, 06:22 PM
Ray;

IMHO, if I were to offer to have you as a beta tester, I would first like to see some of your emulsion and coating work... it is essential that he see that you are capable of doing justice to his synthetic material in all regards.

:D

Certainly. I fully agree. That's just common sense.

Ray Rogers
02-23-2010, 06:34 PM
In science, we do not "kill" an animal, we "sacrifice" it.

PE

The problem is that the life being "sacrificed" does not belong to us.

Photo Engineer
02-23-2010, 06:41 PM
The latest word is that some scientists believe that vegetation has some sort of cognitive ability or sensory system. See this months Science News for the article.

PE

Ray Rogers
02-23-2010, 06:56 PM
When I worked in a microbiology research lab I had to kill many mice,rats and rabbits. One of the most disturbing sounds I have ever heared is the final scream of a rabbit. That was 40 years ago. But it still haunts me. I just could not do that today.
Bill

I used to raise rabbits. Had 52 at one point.
One night, our dog started making a huge fuss and got us up to see what was going on... it was JUST like a scene right out of "Lassie"... the dog coaxed us into following him to the hutch... where, with his help, we discovered that one of the little newborns had fallen out of the cage... the dog sniffed at the tiny thing then looked at us... it was the an act of both communication and of kindness. Our respect for that dog rose.

In the Future, when we must live side by side with forms of life... that are obviously both intellegent and delicious... what will our justification be then?

I have never head the death cry of a rabbit.

Ray Rogers
02-23-2010, 07:03 PM
The latest word is that some scientists believe that vegetation has some sort of cognitive ability or sensory system. See this months Science News for the article.

PE

Looking for it now... but this is something I have never ever doubted.
"The Secret Life of Plants" was often thought about at one time....

Ray Rogers
02-23-2010, 07:15 PM
Perhaps it is not yet on their website:

http://www.sciencenews.org/search/seek?for=plants&go_submit=go

or my search "plants" failed for some reason.

Kirk Keyes
02-23-2010, 07:25 PM
In the Future, when we must live side by side with forms of life... that are obviously both intellegent and delicious... what will our justification be then?

Ray - surely you remember the Twilight Zone episode, "To Serve Man", don't you...

Ray Rogers
02-23-2010, 07:30 PM
Ray - surely you remember the Twilight Zone episode, "To Serve Man", don't you...

Yes. Unforgetable. They came from afar to serve us... but actually "To Serve Man" was the title of a special book....

wildbillbugman
02-23-2010, 07:40 PM
Everybody,
I am extremely frustrated. I have some good negative plates to show you, but I cannot get PC to recognize my Dynasaur Linotype-Hell scanner. It was fine yesterday. Today I shot indoors, with only natural room light. This was with the blue sensitive emulsion again, but with Steigmann's Solution added to kick up sensitivity by 3 stops. Tomorow I will shoot some of the same with a slightly thicker layer of emulsion, about 9-10 mils, to get the D-max up. One thing I can report is: no significant fogging, even with a sh_t - load of Au.
Next I will add green sensitize it with SDE3006, as recomended by PE. I
know that erythrosine works. But only when added prior to percipitation.
Maybe I can get this scanner working in the morning. But I am getting very frustrated and counter-productive.
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I am convinced that Mantids can distinguish between different people. They can show comfort and affection. They get visably irritated by too many people in a room. Spiders, on the other hand, show no indication that they give a damn about people, one way or another.
Amoeba will "rescue" their fellows from becoming stuck together while splitting.
Bill

Photo Engineer
02-23-2010, 10:26 PM
Looking for it now... but this is something I have never ever doubted.
"The Secret Life of Plants" was often thought about at one time....

If so, what is left to eat?

PE

Photo Engineer
02-23-2010, 10:33 PM
Bill;

You need encouragement from members of the HUMANX federation! :D

And, Damon Knight would appreciate our references to his "coookbook". ;)

The Science News article is there, but even I cannot find it. My "to read" pile and "read recently" pile of books is just too daunting. I speed read and just cannot find some things. Sorry

PE

Kirk Keyes
02-23-2010, 11:13 PM
If so, what is left to eat?

I hear Soylent Green is the best of the Soylent Corporation products.

Ray Rogers
02-24-2010, 01:16 AM
I have my eyes set on alternative energy sources... as the future of evloution.

At the moment we are just recycling the same old magic over and over
and...
If the theory is right, that will probably never change.

Yet the energy of the Universe is so much greater than our tiny needs there seems to be no reason we should restrict ourselves to organic sources of energy....

Of course, isn't something comming up in 2012 that might get in our way? :o

Kirk Keyes
02-24-2010, 10:27 AM
Yet the energy of the Universe is so much greater than our tiny needs there seems to be no reason we should restrict ourselves to organic sources of energy....


OK - let us know how that goes...

tim_bessell
02-24-2010, 10:56 AM
Of course, isn't something comming up in 2012 that might get in our way? :o

They say you will neither know the time nor the place.;)

T