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View Full Version : 1922 Kodak 2 Color Relief Film Patent



Mustafa Umut Sarac
06-30-2010, 08:43 PM
http://www.google.com/patents?id=HwxUAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA1&dq=intitle:color+inassignee:kodak&as_drrb_ap=q&as_minm_ap=0&as_miny_ap=&as_maxm_ap=0&as_maxy_ap=&as_drrb_is=b&as_minm_is=1&as_miny_is=1900&as_maxm_is=12&as_maxy_is=1928&as_psrg=1&as_psra=1&num=100&as_psra=1&source=gbs_selected_pages&cad=1#v=onepage&q&f=false

This is interesting 1922 Kodak Two Color Photography Movie Film patent.

It is very interesting because if you look closely , you will see the two sided , two emulsion film and the surfaces are not flat

but gelatine relief

like gelatine alt printing method or tiffdruck rotogravure cylinders as used as printing of National Geographic Magazine.

They are two three dimensional surfaces and there is huge difference at rendering tones and printing strong colors.

Best ,

Mustafa Umut Sarac

Istanbul

Mustafa Umut Sarac
06-30-2010, 09:07 PM
http://www.google.com/patents?id=YVFMAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA1&dq=color+inassignee:kodak&as_drrb_ap=q&as_minm_ap=0&as_miny_ap=&as_maxm_ap=0&as_maxy_ap=&as_drrb_is=b&as_minm_is=1&as_miny_is=1910&as_maxm_is=12&as_maxy_is=1925&as_psrg=1&as_psra=1&as_psra=1&source=gbs_selected_pages&cad=1#v=onepage&q=color%20inassignee%3Akodak&f=false

Similar technology from 1914 !

Green or Brownish Yellow is made with sulfonic acid.

Can anyone explain this ?

Mustafa Umut Sarac
06-30-2010, 09:17 PM
http://www.google.com/patents?id=mOVbAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA1&dq=dye++inassignee:kodak&as_drrb_is=b&as_minm_is=1&as_miny_is=1910&as_maxm_is=12&as_maxy_is=1925&source=gbs_selected_pages&cad=1#v=onepage&q=dye%20%20inassignee%3Akodak&f=false

This patent from Kodak 1918.

It says take the photograph on film , bleach on soften with 1 to 1 % 4 potassium permanganate to % 20sulfiric acid plus 20 parts water and dye with salt of a sulfonic acid.

Mustafa Umut Sarac
11-25-2010, 12:54 PM
if anyone interested in chemistry of two colors RG , look below ,

http://www.apug.org/forums/forum205/84285-50s-technicolor-trade-secrets-2.html

Umut

Q.G.
11-25-2010, 01:15 PM
Similar technology from 1914 !

Green or Brownish Yellow is made with sulfonic acid.

Can anyone explain this ?

What you have come across here, Mustafa, is John Capstaff's One and Only Original Kodachrome.

No kidding.

AgX
11-25-2010, 01:18 PM
You should not have emphazised on that. Now we shall see requests to start production again...

Mustafa Umut Sarac
11-25-2010, 01:41 PM
I will try to locate the described chemicals at Sigma Catalog.
Or write them to a chemistry forum and learn the modern names of them.
Than learning the prices.
It walks step by step.
May be it would be possible to inkjet these two chemicals to the sides of transparent film.
Or applying with Dye Transfer Process.
I think dye transfer people would like to learn and use the original colors.
I love RG too much and fallen in love with the short Kodak movie . I would be happy to see them at my photography.

Umut

Q.G.
11-25-2010, 02:31 PM
You should not have emphazised on that. Now we shall see requests to start production again...

They are already trying to resurrect Capstaff's Kodachrome in the 'Autochrome' (i forget what the thread title is exactly) thread, i believe.
;)

The Boohoo-Kodachrome's-gone thread might take heart in the fact that what they bewail is not the Real Kodachrome anyway.

P.S.
That let's resurrect Capstaff's Kodachrome thread is called "Experiments with RGB-colored screens... a la Dufaycolor & Autochrome "

happyjam64
11-30-2010, 12:15 AM
May be it would be possible to inkjet these two chemicals to the sides of transparent film.
Whoa! Has anyone ever tried this!?

holmburgers
11-30-2010, 10:35 AM
I think a 2-color monopack would be awesome. I asked PE about it, and he said it would be 'relatively' easy to do with dye-bleach. Emphasis on 'relative'. Dye-bleach is used in cibachrome, and the idea is to utilize the silver image as a catalyst for the reduction or oxidation of the dye present in the emulsion. No color couplers, no controlled diffusion, or other complicated processing techniques. One would only need 2 layers, one sensitive to blue and the other to red, and two appropriate dyes to form a bluish-green & orange image. I believe that the chemicals required aren't very exotic or hard to find.

No one ever marketed an integral, 2-color monopack, AFAIK, because by that point why would you settle for 2-color when you could have 3. This original Kodachrome can't be considered 'integral' in my opinion because the processing requires that you float either side of the dual-sided film on toning baths.

edit: Reading the patent 1196080, it seems that it wasn't toned, but simply dyed. And it wasn't the duplitized film stock, my bad. But that being the case, it seems like any dye that can be used in dye-imbition could be used, as it only requires a differential reaction to tanned & untanned gelatin to form the dye image.