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wildbill
09-07-2010, 07:39 PM
My wife, Stacy, is doing the design work for a small publishing company that is currently seeking images. I figure there's got to be someone here interested in getting their work on the cover.


Call for submissions:

Fast Forward Press is currently seeking photographs for the cover of our upcoming flash novel "Emily Avenue." We are accepting color and b&w photographs containing a neon café sign of some sort (sign does not have to say café on it), preferably at night. The submission should be a low-quality file (72dpi, maximum width of 650 pixels), but if selected original work must be available at 300dpi in at least a 5"x7" size. Also, please note that the photograph may be cropped to fit cover dimensions.

Payment will be photo credit given inside the book, along with 2 contributor copies. Please see our website (http://fastforwardpress.org/) for our current volumes and information about our press.

Send submissions to: ffpressblog@gmail.com
Deadline: September 20th, 2010

wildbill
09-08-2010, 05:45 PM
Here's a quote from them:

Fast Forward Press is a small, young press. Seven of us founded the press and
fund all of the projects, though our goal is to get each project to fund the
next one. We're not quite there. None of the membersof the press get paid for
our time and efforts, we continue the press as a learning experience, a labor of
love, and most of all, to spread the talent of as many writers (and the
occasional visual artist) as possible.



None of our contributors are rewarded monetarily, though it certainly is a goal
of ours, and it will indeed be a happy day when we can do so.

For the time being the only reward we can offer is the work itself, credit
within the book, and the posting of the cover on our website, Amazon, etc.

Moopheus
09-08-2010, 06:42 PM
I should be sympathetic, since I have been in small press publishing, but I always paid my contributors, even if wasn't as much as they could get elsewhere. I never expected anyone besides myself to work for free.

2F/2F
09-08-2010, 06:46 PM
I should be sympathetic, since I have been in small press publishing, but I always paid my contributors, even if wasn't as much as they could get elsewhere. I never expected anyone besides myself to work for free.

I was about to post something similar. Not only should one not work for free out of simple self respect, but mainly out of respect for the photographic profession and those in it. It undermines and devalues the work of professional photographers, and makes it even more difficult than it already is to make a living.

An article from Sports Shooter: http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/1989

Colin Corneau
09-08-2010, 07:17 PM
I see this issue come up, time and again.

My take is to thank wildbill for the notice; thankfully a polite and civil reply was given on the issue of payment for photographers -- the ideal outcome is to educate one and all.

wildbill
09-10-2010, 09:18 PM
Thanks guys. I didn't realize that all the forum members were pros who only shoot for cash. None of the contributors (writers and artists) have asked for money as of yet, even the well known ones. If you'd like to be a part of it, do so. Otherwise, stick to all the other paid book cover deals you have lined up.

Chiron
09-10-2010, 09:56 PM
IMO, I don't see the problem here folks. I harbor no illusions of my being anything other than an amateur or hobbyist photographer. I may end up trying to shoot something to submit because I think it would be REALLY FRIGGIN' COOL to have a book cover credit to my name.

With all due respect to the other responders, maybe we can lighten up here just a bit. No one's "working for free". Payment has been stated as being cover credit and a pair of contributor copies. While that may not be a lot to some people, to some (like myself), published credit and being able to point to something and say, "I did that." or "I took that photo." may be worth more than anything. At the very least worth more than any monetary or tangible value. In no way does that undermine or devalue the work of ANYONE. Further, simply posting something like this has absolutely nothing to do with self respect or respecting an entire profession. If nothing else this could be an excellent opportunity for a photography student to get a legitimate credit to their name.

That being said, I would advise whomever submits to very carefully read through any and all agreements or contracts before actually submitting their works and etc.

Colin Corneau
09-13-2010, 07:21 PM
Given the level of snark displayed in the reply, I'd be very wary.

I was sympathetic up to that point.

I can't imagine a whole lot of respect being given to any photographer -- unpaid or not -- if that's the calibre of response.

Ken Nadvornick
09-14-2010, 01:01 AM
If everything is as it appears to be, I'm not sure I see the problem.

If I'm reading the argument correctly, it seems to be saying that if my son volunteers to go out and mow the grass, that's a direct and potentially fatal threat to the survival of all of the landscape maintenance companies in our area.

Am I missing something here?

Ken

Steve Smith
09-14-2010, 02:02 AM
If I had a suitable image I would offer it. I don't see a problem in having your work in a book with no monetary return. I don't do photography for a living and don't expect to make any money from it.

Equally I don't make my living working as a plumber or carpenter but often do such work on friends houses. I don't see this as de-valuing the plumbing or carpentry professions either.

I would be very happy to see one of my images in a book with nothing more than a credit and perhaps a copy of the book in return.


Steve.

Film Dude
10-04-2010, 04:58 AM
Rude! It is expensive being a photographer!

SuzanneR
10-04-2010, 07:00 AM
I think some form of payment should be offered, unless, of course, they are planning on giving the books away.

Dan Henderson
10-04-2010, 07:03 AM
I helped a writer who was doing a history book on our fire department by photographing several old firefighting tools and designing and creating the cover. I was "paid" the sum of $1.00, was given credit in the book, and received a complementary copy. He was self-publishing the book, and so did not have the money to pay a "professional," so I did (and do not) feel that I robbed anyone of work. I was, and am, pleased to be able to say that my work is in a published book.

As far as the reply, that was not snarky, it was just Vinny.

Ken Nadvornick
10-04-2010, 12:35 PM
I think some form of payment should be offered, unless, of course, they are planning on giving the books away.

But they are offering a form of payment, aren't they?

It's just not in the form of money. It's a photo credit. Which perhaps could, in sufficient aggregate quantity, be eventually transformed into money down the road. Not all types of compensation take the form of money. At least not immediately. Value can be transferred in many ways.

Now whether the value offered is sufficient to cover the deliverable is another story, and can only be ascertained by each individual considering the offer.

Ken

jamesgignac
10-04-2010, 01:04 PM
But they are offering a form of payment, aren't they?

It's just not in the form of money. It's a photo credit. Which perhaps could, in sufficient aggregate quantity, be eventually transformed into money down the road. Not all types of compensation take the form of money. At least not immediately. Value can be transferred in many ways.


Ken, this is not always the best argument to make especially when dealing with publishing. I personally don't like the idea of contributors receiving nothing in order to have their name in a book and like it or not but we live in a currency-based economy and not some sort of photographer's / publisher's co-operative where we all play our roles for free. Were we to all live on a commune together this might be a different story.

I understand the people who believe that payment should be made and not just credit given - it is very seldom that a person will receive a great deal of future business for having a photo on the cover of a small publication. Stating that a person's payment is in fact letting the publisher use their photo is not payment at all so I think that this was simply a poor choice of words or perhaps poorly interpreted. "Here's my photo for you to use" -"Thank you, your payment is that I'm using your photo"; and crediting the photographer is simply something that should be done always.

That being said I too don't see a problem with the idea of having a call for submissions and stating that there is no pay but that the photographer will receive a copy of the book and full credit for the submitted photograph.

Wildbill: if I had something to offer you could certainly have it! Best of luck with the rest of the process.

Ken Nadvornick
10-04-2010, 01:55 PM
I personally don't like the idea of contributors receiving nothing in order to have their name in a book...

The issue is not what you are saying. I mostly agree. It's the scope over which you attempt to apply it. Any further than your own personal domain and it becomes an attempt to dictate the actions of others, who may or may not share your point of view.

I was looking over the help wanted ads for software engineers recently. One particularly caught my eye. It was a startup advertising the availability of jobs, but with a catch. The jobs were non-compensation. You were expected to work for free. Presumably for the same sort of "credit" factor as the book cover photo job offer.

Now I personally don't like the idea of software developers receiving nothing in order to just receive a resume credit. I feel it cheapens the value of the work that I do, and potentially drags down future compensation levels for everyone in this field.

However, I also recognize that not everyone else in the field necessarily sees things as I do.

For example, given the state of the economy I could understand a newly minted computer science graduate deciding that the resume experience garnered by working non-comp right now might be better than having to later explain not working at all. And after the economy improves that the resume entry itself might later translate into greater compensation over someone who had lesser overall experience.

Ultimately, offering a low- or non-compensation job will, like everything else, seek and find its own level of credibility in the marketplace. If the job has no value whatsoever, then no one will take it. But if it has at least some value to at least one person, then the "eBay effect" will apply. An item is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it at that moment.

As I said, value can be pulled from a transaction in many different ways. My pure speculation is that someone somewhere will take the book cover photo job as offered, if they have not already.

And I cannot pass judgment on that person's motives in doing so, as I will not have walked a mile in that person's shoes.

Ken

PLynch
11-03-2010, 08:02 AM
Ahhhhh free photos. After all it's easy right? Yet the requesters for free photos can't go out and make their own. I work in Government where I often have to give photos to people outside my agency to use. Often they very enthusiastically ask how I would like my photo credit to appear. Enthusiastically they ask because after all they are doing me a great service by getting me published and it is within their power to add my name.

My response. Please don't put a credit at all.
WHAT! WHY NOT? they ask in shock as their benevolent act is rejected.

My Response. I don't wish to attract more people looking for free photography.

CGW
11-03-2010, 09:00 AM
"Payment will be photo credit given inside the book, along with 2 contributor copies..."

Anybody have any recipes for photo credit and contributor copies? Just asking.

Domenico Foschi
12-12-2010, 01:07 PM
I have offered one of my images because the man and his wife, and I can only say that they are just great people who are trying to keep a passion alive.
I know how hard it is to keep doing what you like because of financial restrictions, and knowing this great couple it is only an honor to enable them to do so. I understand the resistance, but as I said, I know them, and I can only say good things about them.

benjiboy
12-14-2010, 06:49 AM
The ultimate put down is if you offer you're work for free, and they reject it.