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anon12345
09-23-2010, 12:20 PM
Here's an image of a similar holder . . .

http://www.flickr.com/photos/7493297@N07/445428750/

Notice how the slide being pulled out is hanging low towards the tablecloth. There's is a visible gap between the slats nearer the holder. Mine slides have no sign that there was ever any glue between the slats. Interesting to say the least.

Ian Grant
09-23-2010, 12:54 PM
It appears they were made to split so the small end should come away from the rest. See here. (http://www.earlyphotography.co.uk/site/holders.html) You learn something new every day. See Fig B15.

My guess is the second split shouldn't be there in the image you attached as it's a crack in the wood & not straight.

Ian

anon12345
09-23-2010, 02:53 PM
I think the first part of the statement below sounds a little misleading. If the slide is pulled up and then folded, it must fold back towards the operator. If you tried to fold it over the camera (ie; forward) it would probably explode into a pile of sticks. Mine has more than one unglued joint. For grins, I'll post a picture of it also.

"Wooden draw-slides could generally not be fully removed from the dark-slide and were usually made up of several pieces of wood joined by a cloth hinge which allowed it to fold over the top of the camera when drawn.3 W. Watson (of Holmes & Watson) patented the idea of having small strips of wood stuck to the cloth hinge to make it light-tight."

Marco B
09-23-2010, 03:09 PM
It appears they were made to split so the small end should come away from the rest. See here. (http://www.earlyphotography.co.uk/site/holders.html) You learn something new every day. See Fig B15.

My guess is the second split shouldn't be there in the image you attached as it's a crack in the wood & not straight.

Ian

Ian, do I understand you right you are also referring to this part of the text?:

"Wooden draw-slides could generally not be fully removed from the dark-slide and were usually made up of several pieces of wood joined by a cloth hinge which allowed it to fold over the top of the camera when drawn.3 W. Watson (of Holmes & Watson) patented the idea of having small strips of wood stuck to the cloth hinge to make it light-tight."

So, looking at the image below, the top part of the dark slide with the small "arms" sign on it, could be "hinged" at 90 degrees along the "cloth hinge" visible as a small horizontal line across the slide?Actually, not a bad idea if the slide was non-removable as suggested in the text and apparent from the design of the holder in the image, as it would not catch air turbulence in that configuration...
27011

Indeed a nice text about holders!

Ian Grant
09-23-2010, 03:16 PM
There's too many variations of these darkslides, When I had a Sanderon to fix for someone the 10x8 Book form darkslides were rigid, as have been others I've hanled. But I was watching a set of 6 half plate DDS today and they had the single bend/split, back towards the operator.

I'd guess the writer is correct, he's accessed a lot data from some good sources, over the top of the camera is ambiguous but it does cover backwards. His site is by far the most authoritative of any about British vintage wood & brass cameras.

Ian

TheFlyingCamera
09-23-2010, 03:19 PM
I'm surprised how little some of these camera's are selling for, a very good condition half plate Watson Premier sold for 269 ($410) 8 weeks ago with the original case, two Dallmeyer lenses, a Thornton Pickard shutter and 6 dark slides. A 15"x12" Premier was fir sale for for 300 with no bellows, I think the seller's is an APUG member, as he mentioned having a 2nd 15x12 Premier and having new bellows made by Custom (Camera) Bellows, and getting a wet plate back made.

Ian

If that's what it is, that's MY camera now. I bought that one here on APUG a while ago. The difference between it and the one you posted the photo of is that it does NOT have a tripod/legs mounting ring, rather an after-the-fact 3/8 threaded socket and a solid baseboard to the tailboard.

edp
09-23-2010, 03:28 PM
Different sized holders from different makers have different flexible hinge arrangements. My Thornton-Pickard half-plate holders, for example, have two bends in the join; the dark slide is made up of three pieces, joined with black cloth on the inside. Just like this one: http://www.flickr.com/photos/7493297@N07/445428750/

Ian Grant
09-23-2010, 03:32 PM
If that's what it is, that's MY camera now. I bought that one here on APUG a while ago. The difference between it and the one you posted the photo of is that it does NOT have a tripod/legs mounting ring, rather an after-the-fact 3/8 threaded socket and a solid baseboard to the tailboard.

I posted the whole page, the top camera was the Acme a field camera :D

You can have higher resolution images from the other adverts if you want them, they are all quite different angles and higher quality than the 1928 image. The 1939 image show a camera tripod mounted, with it attached via two tripod sockets.

BTW the APUG member who sold the 15x12 then had his second for sale, did you buy the first from the UK ?

Ian

Marco B
09-23-2010, 03:54 PM
I especially love these image of a semi-automatic changing box for plates, and the descriptive text that accompanies it. So simple and clever all of the described designs! For clarity (if I understand it right ;)): the thin black curving line on top represent a flexible light tight changing bag into which the plate was dropped before moving it to the front of the plate holder for exposure (right side of image). This text about holders (http://www.earlyphotography.co.uk/site/holders.html) is getting better each line I read! So nice to see these things explained!

http://www.earlyphotography.co.uk/Images_thumb/Bcbx.JPG

"Bag Type

The plates were usually held in metal sheaths and stacked in a box having a cloth or leather top. To change plates the front or rear plate was gripped by the fingers through the bag and moved to the other end of the box. The plate had to be raised so that it could be gripped by the fingers, two common methods were:

* Lever - a lever or arm was used to raise the front or back plate. Early examples were by Newman, Rouch and Sinclair
* Draw-slide - when the draw-slide was returned after an exposure it raised the front plate, boxes by Reid and Grundmann were of this type."

anon12345
09-23-2010, 09:42 PM
Here is a picture of one of the three holders. Since the slats are not affixed to the cloth backing you can see how it is configured. I separated the slats to add drama to the scene.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4084/5019470996_cc7133036f_b.jpg

Here's one of the negative holder frames. It still contains a paper negative that appears to have been installed wet.
Patented May '85. It is perfect for holding a sheet that is 4x5 inches in size.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4084/5018866873_02212950fb_b.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4152/5019472116_e922f9101b_b.jpg

Marco B
09-24-2010, 03:19 AM
Here is a picture of one of the three holders. Since the slats are not affixed to the cloth backing you can see how it is configured. I separated the slats to add drama to the scene.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4084/5019470996_cc7133036f_b.jpg

Here's one of the negative holder frames. It still contains a paper negative that appears to have been installed wet.
Patented May '85. It is perfect for holding a sheet that is 4x5 inches in size.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4084/5018866873_02212950fb_b.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4152/5019472116_e922f9101b_b.jpg

Nice, this explains it all about the "hinge" in the slide. Curious though, yours clearly has a multi-faceted hinge. I expected just one "hinge"...

Could this feature potentially have to do with accommodating different plate / negative sizes and / or different types of cameras? :confused:

With a multi-faceted hinge, I could potentially foresee an issue with shoving it back in the holder... might not always be so easy.

Also interesting the picture of the paper negative in the metal frame. Although the text about holders is quite thorough, one clear omission, is showing such a metal frame for holding the paper negatives, even though they are mentioned in the text.

Marco B
09-24-2010, 04:03 AM
Film-Advance Indicators

Click
Typically a measuring roller would turn as the film was advanced, a pin on the roller lifted and then let drop a spring - making a click sound (fig. B44). Later models of the Warnerke holder used an electric bell triggered by holes in the paper.

Would have loved to hear this one in operation! ;)

Ian Grant
09-24-2010, 04:16 AM
The descriptions of various pre-Grafmatic backs is very interesting, and that actually gives me an idea for Dann.

It's possible that the septums from an old Grafmatic back might be good for film inserts in the Sands, Hunter plate holders, they are very similar to the 9x12 sheaths.

Ian

TheFlyingCamera
09-24-2010, 06:16 AM
I posted the whole page, the top camera was the Acme a field camera :D

You can have higher resolution images from the other adverts if you want them, they are all quite different angles and higher quality than the 1928 image. The 1939 image show a camera tripod mounted, with it attached via two tripod sockets.

BTW the APUG member who sold the 15x12 then had his second for sale, did you buy the first from the UK ?

Ian

Yes, I bought it from the UK. I would have liked to buy the fully restored camera, but it was NOT in my budget at the time.

Ian Grant
09-24-2010, 01:05 PM
Yes, I bought it from the UK. I would have liked to buy the fully restored camera, but it was NOT in my budget at the time.

The 2nd 15x12 Watson is an enormous camera, obviously yours is exactly the same :D

What an amazing camera to own, you're very lucky. At least the square bellows it takes are the easiest of all to make.

This thread's got me champing at the bit, I've just held back twice from buying two Lizars Plate cameras. I already have two great 10x8 Agfa Ansco's but US camera's don't have the finesse & elegance of vintage British LF cameras.

I'm also getting an itch to start making emulsions again:wizard: I've seen Ilford's glass plate coating line in action, on the last factory tour, so perhaps it's time to put 10 years of commercial emulsion making experience to use again.

What got me motivated was discovering that emulsions were sold are dry powder form, add water then melt and coat.

We can't make a cascade head so we need to look else where, it's all out there though and in detail.

Ian

edp
09-24-2010, 03:04 PM
This thread's got me champing at the bit, I've just held back twice from buying two Lizars Plate cameras. I already have two great 10x8 Agfa Ansco's but US camera's don't have the finesse & elegance of vintage British LF cameras.

This thread's got me getting my Watson Acme out on a Friday evening so I can caress it and admire the tiny hand-cut dovetails. It really is a lovely thing.