As coincidence would have it the creation of this sub forum today was accompanied by an email from Mark Nelson announcing availability of his book on making digital negatives, Precision Digital Negatives
for Silver & Other Alternative Photographic Processes. If interested Mark's email is Ender100@aol.com.

The title, which I actually suggested to Mark a couple of months ago, makes the case, and I believe correctly, that silver gelatin printing is already a form of alternative printing. I doubt that many would argue that digital printmaking has become the more common and ubiquitous method of making both color and monochrome prints. Well, some might argue it as there will be arguments about everything, but that this is already the case is certainly my opinion.

Sandy

As coincidence would have it the creation of this sub forum today was accompanied by an email from Mark Nelson announcing availability of his book on making digital negatives, Precision Digital Negatives
for Silver & Other Alternative Photographic Processes. If interested Mark's email is Ender100@aol.com.

The title, which I actually suggested to Mark a couple of months ago, makes the case, and I believe correctly, that silver gelatin printing is already a form of alternative printing. I doubt that many would argue that digital printmaking has become the more common and ubiquitous method of making both color and monochrome prints. Well, some might argue it as there will be arguments about everything, but that this is already the case is certainly my opinion.

Sandy

That's great news to hear. As I told Mark in an e-mail last night I've been keeping my powder dry (read saving ink, OHP, and paper) until his book is released. So I'm really looking forward to reading and using Mark's new modern classic.

I'm sure as time goes on and people start seeing the outstanding results achievible with Mark's method there will be a lot of interest generated in PDN.

For those of you that haven't seen the negatives and prints made by Mark's method I can tell you they are pretty impressive.


Don Bryant

Sweet! As they say "The Check Is In The Mail".

Sweet! As they say "The Check Is In The Mail".
Looks loke Mark has released his book, at least according to his web site, although I've neither read or received a formal announcement about that.

Don Bryant

Looks loke Mark has released his book, at least according to his web site, although I've neither read or received a formal announcement about that.

Don Bryant

Don,

I sent an email to Mark a few weeks ago asking to be notified when the book was released.

I received an email on the 14th saying that it was now available along with ordering instructions.

Jim

I may be the first kid on the block to report delivery of Mark's CD. I am halfway through it, and my thought is - this is pretty incredible. He has put a tremendous amount of work into this system, and I am pumped to try it out. I have been getting some very good results using Keith Schreiber's fake pyro negative approach, but I have the feeling that I have been using stone knives and wearing bearskins, and a flak jacket and a Glock just got delivered to my front door..

I may be the first kid on the block to report delivery of Mark's CD. I am halfway through it, and my thought is - this is pretty incredible. He has put a tremendous amount of work into this system, and I am pumped to try it out. I have been getting some very good results using Keith Schreiber's fake pyro negative approach, but I have the feeling that I have been using stone knives and wearing bearskins, and a flak jacket and a Glock just got delivered to my front door..

I just got back from being out of town and found my copy waiting for me when I arrived home tonight.

I have never made a digital negative before and I'm very excited to give it a try.

Jim

I just got back from being out of town and found my copy waiting for me when I arrived home tonight.

I have never made a digital negative before and I'm very excited to give it a try.

Jim

I'm rather surprised to hear this since I received no notice from Mark. I was under the impression that he wasn't shipping quite yet.

Don

I'm rather surprised to hear this since I received no notice from Mark. I was under the impression that he wasn't shipping quite yet.

Don

Don,

Order that puppy, it's shipping!

Jim

Anyone have results to report from making digital negatives via Mark Nelson's book?

I am beginning to think that all of you fellows must be a lot smarter than me since there have been no questions. The first time I tried it I got really bogged down with some of the details, especially the part where you adjust the curve for the Photoshop input/output values with the Curve Value Locator.

Sandy

Anyone have results to report from making digital negatives via Mark Nelson's book?

I am beginning to think that all of you fellows must be a lot smarter than me since there have been no questions. The first time I tried it I got really bogged down with some of the details, especially the part where you adjust the curve for the Photoshop input/output values with the Curve Value Locator.

Sandy

Sandy,

Although I have read through the book I have not yet had an opportunity to actually get started.

Once I do begin I'm sure that I'll have plenty of question ;)

In fact I have a 4x5 negative that is damaged that I will repair in photoshop and use it as my first project.

Jim

I sent out my check for the book yesterday and also called Stouffer to order a transmission step tablet. Should be up and running soon after I receive the book and tablet and will post back here.

Anyone have results to report from making digital negatives via Mark Nelson's book?

I am beginning to think that all of you fellows must be a lot smarter than me since there have been no questions. The first time I tried it I got really bogged down with some of the details, especially the part where you adjust the curve for the Photoshop input/output values with the Curve Value Locator.

Sandy
As soon as my copy arrives I'm sure I'll have plenty of questions. Just be patient; sometimes you get what you wish for. :)

Don

Just be patient; sometimes you get what you wish for. :)

Don's right, I am sure once it arrives you will be begging us to STOP asking questions :)

Jim
how is the book readability wise? Is it technical or would a computer idiot like me be able to understand it?

mark

Jim
how is the book readability wise? Is it technical or would a computer idiot like me be able to understand it?

mark

I don't know if I would recommend the book for a complete computer idiot, but to use it you don't have to be a computer guru either. It is a fairly straight forward read for people with a decent understanding of Photoshop, with a few hurdles along the way. But of course if you don't know Photoshop you probably would not be interested in buying the book anyway.

Sandy

Dear Sandy and all PDN enthusiasts,




I've received PDN 3 days and I'm already reading and proceeding with the first test procedures.
Concerning the measuring of the Tonal Palette with a densitometer (pg.98) is said not to ZERO the densitometer on paper white.

I have a B&W reflection/transmission densitometer (Heiland TRD2).
How should I zero the densitometer in this case ?

I notice that when reading reflection densities of Pt/Pd prints,even with a paper with a fine texture like Crane's Kid Finish Ecru, when I turn the print 90º, the reading values can show significant different values(log1.36 versus1,42).
What value should I consider ?


Thank you all



Manuel Gomes Teixeira
Punctum Studios
Portugal

Dear Sandy and all PDN enthusiasts,




I've received PDN 3 days and I'm already reading and proceeding with the first test procedures.
Concerning the measuring of the Tonal Palette with a densitometer (pg.98) is said not to ZERO the densitometer on paper white.

I have a B&W reflection/transmission densitometer (Heiland TRD2).
How should I zero the densitometer in this case ?

I notice that when reading reflection densities of Pt/Pd prints, even with a paper with a fine texture like Crane's Kid Finish Ecru, when I turn the print 90º, the reading values can show significant different values(log1.36 versus1,42).
What value should I consider ?


Thank you all



Manuel Gomes Teixeira
Punctum Studios
Portugal

I don't have a copy of the book on hand and don't recall that section about how to ZERO the densitometer. My intuition would be to just ZERO (calibrate) the densitometer as per instructions in the manual so I think there may be some kind of misunderstanding here.about the task. What I believe Mark means is that you should not chose one of the squares on the tonal palette that is pure paper white as the basis for the colorization because this will result in bald highlights on the print. And we never want pure paper white anywhere on a print. Instead, chose a square that has some density and is at least one or two removed from the one that is pure paper white. Remember, the square you chooses determines the density range of your negatives. If you choose one that is absolutley white the resulting negatives will have too much contrast.

As to how you should read, just be consistent and always read the print with the same orientation. And I would chose the orientation that gives maximum Dmax. Folks who have color reflection densitometers will find that a process like Pt./Pd. will have different Dmax values depending on whether the reading is in Visual, Red, Green or Blue. In this case I would use Visual even though Blue will usually give the higher Dmax because Visual is the more common reference when comparing results.

Sandy

Dear Sandy and all PDN enthusiasts,


I've received PDN 3 days and I'm already reading and proceeding with the first test procedures.
Concerning the measuring of the Tonal Palette with a densitometer (pg.98) is said not to ZERO the densitometer on paper white.

I
Manuel Gomes Teixeira
Punctum Studios
Portugal

I had a chance to look at the passage and am pretty sure I now understand what this means. What Mark is saying is to not ZERO the densitometer on paper white because paper white is not log 0.00. All papers have some reflection density, typically in the log 0.04 to 0.07 range.

So just make sure your densitometer is calibrated, hopefully with a standard reference plaque.

Sandy

Sandy,

Hi Again, and thanks for the help concerning my other questions.



After determining, as described at PDN, the Standard Printing Time (4 Minutes), I printed the Color Density Range Palette and arrived to the conclusion that the step that prints nearly white as the paper base, is located at the extreme upper left :Green+Blue Units Units- Step 0.

I'm using Crane's Kid Finish Ecru with 12 Drops FeOx/1Pt/12Pd/1Na2 25%(just to clean the whites) 8x10" size.

The question are:
1-
Should I increase contrast by adding more Na2 ?

As far I understood from PDN text the "good" step should be absolutely white,and not in the extreme to the scale.

2-

4 minutes as the Standard Printing Time seems a very short exposure for my UV fluorescent Sylvania BL unit. With that time any small flutctuation in light intensity can have a big impact at the final result. I do not have a light integrator.

What could I do to increase the Standard Printing Time ?

Thanks for your help

Greetings from Portugal


Manuel Gomes Teixeira

Sandy,

Hi Again, and thanks for the help concerning my other questions.



After determining, as described at PDN, the Standard Printing Time (4 Minutes), I printed the Color Density Range Palette and arrived to the conclusion that the step that prints nearly white as the paper base, is located at the extreme upper left :Green+Blue Units Units- Step 0.

I'm using Crane's Kid Finish Ecru with 12 Drops FeOx/1Pt/12Pd/1Na2 25%(just to clean the whites) 8x10" size.

The question are:
1-
Should I increase contrast by adding more Na2 ?

As far I understood from PDN text the "good" step should be absolutely white,and not in the extreme to the scale.

2-

4 minutes as the Standard Printing Time seems a very short exposure for my UV fluorescent Sylvania BL unit. With that time any small flutctuation in light intensity can have a big impact at the final result. I do not have a light integrator.

What could I do to increase the Standard Printing Time ?

Thanks for your help

Greetings from Portugal


Manuel Gomes Teixeira

Manuel,

Your results are very close to mine, at least in terms of the fill color. I used 10 drops FO + 10 drops PC + 2 drops Hydrogen Peroxide, without any regular platinum or Na2. With this mixture the best step for the fill color was G= 255, B=40, but there is very little difference in density between the step I used and the one you think is the best. I think, rather, there is a conceptual issue. I chose to use a step that does not give absolute paper white but one that is about log 0.02 above paper white. The assumption is that one would never actually want pure paper white on the print. In my case I am seeing pure paper white in the step that is at G=255, B=20, but I chose to use a fill color consiting of G=255, B=40.

Your printing times are much shorter than mine, but of course a pure palladium such as the one I am using is much slower than any mixture that has some platinum in it. However, I don't believe that four minutes is too short. I use an integrator with my fluorescent bank, where one second is one unit, but in reality a time of four minutes is almost exactly equivalent to 240 units, so if all of your tubes come on at once, and there is reasonable voltage stabilization in your studio, I would not worry about the time.

Hope this helps, but for sure your tests definitely sound like they are on the right track.

Sandy

Sandy,


Thank you so much again for your positive and clear help, as always.


Manuel

Sandy, why the hydrogen peroxide? Sorry if this seems like a stupid question, but I have never heard of anyone adding hydrogen peroxide before.

What about curves for different papers, I assume I need a new curve for each paper I use. Because of this I am going to be making a curve for clearprint vellum this week.

Jeremy

Jeremy,
Hydrogen peroxide is another method of contrast control in pt/pd printing. It is an oxidizer, just like dichromate or chlorate. A lot of people will add a drop to their solution just to clean up any minor fogging from older ferric oxalate where a tiny bit of the ferric has turned to ferrous over time. The peroxide will turn it back to ferric. The downside to using peroxide for anything other than a small contrast bump is that the strength of hydrogen peroxide is so hard to determine. As you know, peroxide is basically water (H20) with an extra oxygen (H202) and it is not stable, and it will convert to plain water over time. So it is sort of hard to guess exactly what solution strength your peroxide actually is, because it is a moving target. So a lot of people use it like a cook uses salt. A small dash of it, in other words.

Hydrogen Peroxide was recommended for the Palladio papers as an additional ingredient for the developer to boost contrast. Again, it usually worked for one printing session or so because it broke down into water.