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R gould
10-16-2010, 12:36 PM
I try to compose for full frame printing, with both 35mm and 120 6/60r 645, and 9 times out of ten iit works, but there are always times when you can't make it work, especialy if like me you use a lot of fixed lens cameras, such as Rollei tlrs etc,Richard

Sirius Glass
10-16-2010, 01:16 PM
Ditto, but with 135, 120 in 6x6 and 4"x5".

Steve

The three formats give me choices of height-width and grain size.

Steve

jnanian
10-16-2010, 01:29 PM
i am not afraid to crop and i am not afraid to compose and
print a full frame .. it depends on the image and the format.

DWThomas
10-16-2010, 01:52 PM
In general I compose to the full frame, and print the same. But that said, if I'm messing around in the darkroom and notice that my original square looks better cropped to a rectangle, it happens. I shoot several different aspect ratios as I swap cameras and don't seem to have much difficulty "maximizing my use of real estate."

MattKing
10-16-2010, 02:34 PM
I have no problem with cropping in the darkroom, although I will admit to an irrational sense of satisfaction when the best choice for a negative is a full frame print.

When I expose the film, I will generally try to fill the frame with my subject, but if faced with a subject that appears strong in a number of different ways, I'll try shooting them in all those ways, and/or shoot with enough room to permit making a cropping choice later.

I think it important to remember that when we look through a viewfinder or at a ground glass, the image we perceive is affected by the frame around it that the camera provides. That frame may or may not affect us in the same way as the frame provided by the choice we make in respect of the final presentation of the print or slide. As an example, a subject that appears one way when viewed through the viewfinder's "tunnel" may appear different in a matted print.

I expect as well that at least part of my desire to compose so as to avoid having to crop comes from early experience trying to print 35mm negatives with obvious grain and mediocre sharpness. If I had started with an RB67 and properly exposed, perfectly developed low speed negatives, I would probably be sloppier than I am now :).

BetterSense
10-16-2010, 02:38 PM
I'm the opposite. I almost always leave some room around the edges for trimming. Except with 35mm, because there isn't enough negative to spare.

bblhed
10-16-2010, 04:05 PM
I try to compose to have the image I want cover as much of the frame as I can get it to cover because I am still not used to making my own prints. But then I only end up having to crop for format mostly, and rarely for image, now and then I do crop for image though.

Andrew Horodysky
10-16-2010, 04:15 PM
I tend to compose within the viewfinder, and not crop. Once in a while, I'll take a little out, just to make the composition. As mentioned earlier in the thread, if I crop too much... well, then, it feels [and looks] like a cropped image.

jgjbowen
10-16-2010, 04:53 PM
I've always felt cropping in the darkroom meant poor vision in the field. If the image on the GG isn't what I want the viewer to see then I need to either take a step or two forward, take a step or two backward, change lenses or change formats.

YMMV

eddym
10-16-2010, 04:58 PM
When I look in one direction instead of another... I am cropping.
When I look at one thing instead of another... I am cropping.
When I choose a camera format to shoot... I am cropping.
When I choose a lens to put on the camera... I am cropping.
When I point the camera at the part of the scene I chose... I am cropping.
When I look though the viewfinder or at the groundglass... I am cropping.
When I move the camera around, looking at the scene through the viewfinder... I am cropping.
When I move one step to the right, left, forward, or back... I am cropping.
When I zoom the lens in or out...I am cropping.
When I turn the camera either horizontal or vertical... I am cropping.
When I project the negative onto a print easel... I am cropping.
When I adjust the blades of the easel... I am cropping.

I make MY OWN PHOTOGRAPHS and I can and will crop whenever, wherever, and however I damned well please!
Please feel free to do the same with your photographs.

thegman
10-16-2010, 05:10 PM
Tend to crop as little as possible, as I don't like to lose the resolution. Less of a problem on 6x7 of course, but I still don't like to.

wclark5179
10-16-2010, 05:27 PM
I leave room to crop. Some need to have the extra room if they are purchasing a print that requires cropping. If I didn't provide room to crop then, sometimes, important pieces would be lost. Then I'd have to use content aware scale in PS to please the client.

David Brown
10-16-2010, 05:36 PM
I do whatever I need to do. If that means cropping, so be it. Cropping is just another alternative.

Moopheus
10-16-2010, 05:57 PM
Is full frame composing and printing laziness

Yes, or at least for me. I try to get everything as close as I can--framing, exposure, etc.--"in camera" to reduce the amount of work I have to do later. That said, "cropping" and "framing" are just two words for the same action--deciding what goes in, and what does not. All that matters to the viewer is the final image.

I do realize that there are some practical differences--if you are shooting some object, you have to decide, for instance, what angle of view before you press the shutter. You can't decide in the darkroom that you'd rather have it from the back. Even Photoshop isn't that good yet.

Sirius Glass
10-16-2010, 06:13 PM
When I look in one direction instead of another... I am cropping.
When I look at one thing instead of another... I am cropping.
When I choose a camera format to shoot... I am cropping.
When I choose a lens to put on the camera... I am cropping.
When I point the camera at the part of the scene I chose... I am cropping.
When I look though the viewfinder or at the groundglass... I am cropping.
When I move the camera around, looking at the scene through the viewfinder... I am cropping.
When I move one step to the right, left, forward, or back... I am cropping.
When I zoom the lens in or out...I am cropping.
When I turn the camera either horizontal or vertical... I am cropping.
When I project the negative onto a print easel... I am cropping.
When I adjust the blades of the easel... I am cropping.

I make MY OWN PHOTOGRAPHS and I can and will crop whenever, wherever, and however I damned well please!
Please feel free to do the same with your photographs.


Very well said!!

Decades of shooting slides taught me to crop before shooting. And that means looking around, changing lenses and-or using a zoom lens. Now I change formats or rotate the film back too.

Steve

clayne
10-16-2010, 08:17 PM
There have been about a 100 of these types of cropping threads.

I generally separate cropping into 2 realms: utility and cheating.

Utility cropping being very light clean up crops along the border to adjust for viewfinder inaccuracy, easel, etc. Usually less than 2%.

Now the other is based on full on cropping meant to recompose an image after the fact. I consider that a crutch, cheating, etc.

Besides the lens doesn't lie - it's usually obvious when an image is cropped - the angle of view and perspective look strange and it's yet another reason not to do it.

Get it right the first time unless you absolutely cannot for other reasons.

BetterSense
10-16-2010, 08:21 PM
the angle of view and perspective look strange and it's yet another reason not to do it.

As far as I can tell, there is no geometrical difference between if you crop a picture or if you used a different lens/zoom to achieve the same composition. If it looks funny to you, it must be because you saw the original and so you also have that composition in your head or something.

Of course cropping will change your grain, resolution and sharpness, though.

EDIT: I looked at your sig; lol

clayne
10-16-2010, 08:25 PM
With the focal lengths I use (under 50) you most definitely can see the distorted angle of view from a crop.

I consider it cheating because it's a tactic used to get around lack of commitment at the time the original was shot.

BetterSense
10-16-2010, 09:16 PM
If your crop is significantly off-center, and you don't tilt the easel to compensate, then you will have a distortion effect similar to using shift or rise on a view camera. I was only talking about central crops that is, trimming off sides or cropping a square to a centered rectangle.

sly
10-16-2010, 09:47 PM
Like others, shooting 35mm slides trained me to look at the complete frame and compose to the edges. I don't hesitate to crop if an image seems to require it. I find myself frustrated every now and then with 4x5 images. They might work fine as a contact print, but if I enlarge them the negative carrier shaves a sliver off each edge and I've no longer got the image I wanted. When I try to compensate while shooting, I always leave too much edge and end up cropping. Not a big deal, but those ones won't work as contact alt prints. sigh....