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jnanian
11-26-2010, 12:49 PM
Yeah, the real dough can be in a stock photograph business on the side.

well ...
have you been to stock photo sites lately
it really isn't too hard to stand out from the crowd ... :whistling:

Colin Corneau
11-27-2010, 08:07 PM
...how she could combine her passion for writing and photography.

Combine those two and she'll do very well. Add a few business classes in, and her odds go up again.

Video is great but it's a trend that's passing. Good to have, definitely, but not the saviour of the industry it was once advertised as...people who do well with video do it full time.

Mainecoonmaniac
11-27-2010, 08:35 PM
Your daughter may want to be a "Documentary Photographer". The number of daily newspapers are getting fewer. I agree with Suzanne's advice on perfecting ones craft. A documentuary photographer is like a documentary filmmaker where he or she is interested in long-term documenting on a subject matter. Your daughter could double major in photography and another area of human interest like anthropology. I feel that there's a hunger for publications like books that document different people and their life. For example Marry Ellen Mark and Sebastião Salgado.

Jim Edmond
11-27-2010, 08:48 PM
Dirck Halstead's site is on a hiatus right now, but there's about 10 years worth of archives of interest to PJs: http://www.digitaljournalist.org/

billbretz
11-27-2010, 09:55 PM
Your daughter may want to be a "Documentary Photographer". .... I feel that there's a hunger for publications like books that document different people and their life. For example Marry Ellen Mark and Sebastião Salgado.

The only photographers more endangered than photojournalists are documentary photographers (if not stock photographers). Perhaps there is "hunger" but there is no money.

Not trying to dissuade your daughter from practicing photojournalism or documentary photography... but I'm a working newspaper photographer/photojournalist with a ten-year old daughter. She won't be a photographer for a career, if I can help it! I will encourage her to learn and enjoy photography, but strongly steer her away from trying to make a go at to feed her family.

Dan Daniel
11-27-2010, 11:29 PM
Well, a quick search of the Popular Photography site leads to some articles that might be of interest to her:
http://www.popphoto.com/search/popphoto/photographing%20rock%20bands
Not heavy on the US Labor Dept statistical data, of course.... : )

Colin Corneau
11-28-2010, 12:01 AM
Google Sean Gallagher, photographer working in China.

Check out the "About" section.

Mainecoonmaniac
11-28-2010, 01:42 AM
The only photographers more endangered than photojournalists are documentary photographers (if not stock photographers). Perhaps there is "hunger" but there is no money.

Not trying to dissuade your daughter from practicing photojournalism or documentary photography... but I'm a working newspaper photographer/photojournalist with a ten-year old daughter. She won't be a photographer for a career, if I can help it! I will encourage her to learn and enjoy photography, but strongly steer her away from trying to make a go at to feed her family.
There are no guarantees in a career of course. I think trying to work for a newspaper is going to be tough. I would also suggest along with other college courses that will give her good grant writing skills. Teaching is also an avenue for extra income. I would say be flexible. Don't just see still photography as an only media outlet. Consider video also. I wish her the best of luck.

guitstik
11-28-2010, 08:39 AM
Again I say, everyone here is reinforcing the same things that I have been telling her. I want my children to do what they enjoy and enjoy what they do meaning that if they have an interest and they can pursue it as a career they will be much happier than I am. What parent does not want their children to exceed what they themselves have done. I want only for her to do better than I have and to be happy doing it. The problem lies with balancing what will pay the bills with what makes you happy and that can be a precarious line to walk. If I remember correctly, I think that Suzanne was on Analogue Photography Radio and I could not wait to get my daughter to listen to it but as is usual with teenagers, she could not be bothered. I believe that she enamored with the "romance" of band photography and not so much with the reality of the job. I tell her that if she really wanted to be a photographer she would have a camera with her at all times and film to go in it but she can't be bothered. I love her dearly but she drives me crazy

Christopher Walrath
11-28-2010, 09:12 AM
PM Rob Skeoch.

nyoung
11-28-2010, 04:13 PM
Get a degree that will help you understand the world you live in - History, English Literature, Political Science - not journalism or sociology. Take lots of English courses - not journalism - and learn how to tell a story. That's the skill they can't replace with a machine. THEN, play, play, play with all the computers, digi cameras, and video thing-a-ma-bobs you can get your hands on. The technology changes so quickly now its more important to be able to pick up new stuff quickly than to know eveything there is to know about anything.

tkamiya
11-28-2010, 04:36 PM
I want my children to do what they enjoy and enjoy what they do meaning that if they have an interest and they can pursue it as a career they will be much happier than I am.

Just a note from someone who has done this....

My childhood hobbies were electronics and ham radio. My first part-time job was selling ham radio equipment and my first job was an electronics technician assisting an engineer. I sort of grew into computer field at its infancy and later became IT tech/management. Then I got much more interested into it and support technician then to a programmer.

Not that I don't enjoy my job and I do. Not that there is anything else I'd rather be doing for my job. One thing I miss A LOT is having a hobby and enjoying it for the heck of it. If you notice, anything and everything I enjoyed became my job. As soon as something becomes a job, all the fun part of the field goes out the picture. In a sense, one loses a hobby.

Something to think about....

I actually started film photography BECAUSE digital photography is so much like my job. I still do it because it isn't my job but analog has nothing to do with computers. (other than being on APUG.... :blink: )

As you talk to your daughter about her choice of future career, I'd appreciate it if you keep this in back of your mind.

Mainecoonmaniac
11-28-2010, 05:50 PM
Get a degree that will help you understand the world you live in - History, English Literature, Political Science - not journalism or sociology. Take lots of English courses - not journalism - and learn how to tell a story. That's the skill they can't replace with a machine. THEN, play, play, play with all the computers, digi cameras, and video thing-a-ma-bobs you can get your hands on. The technology changes so quickly now its more important to be able to pick up new stuff quickly than to know eveything there is to know about anything.
You put into words what I was thinking. A lot of documentary photogs are great because they are engaged in the world. They see human endeavors with a special eye. To develop those sensitivities, they must know something about the world and human nature. One does this by having a broad based education. Yes technology will always change. A sharp intellect and a sensitive eye will serve one for a life time.

Grif
11-29-2010, 01:54 PM
Just a note from someone who has done this....

My childhood hobbies were electronics and ham radio. One thing I miss A LOT is having a hobby and enjoying it for the heck of it. If you notice, anything and everything I enjoyed became my job. As soon as something becomes a job, all the fun part of the field goes out the picture. In a sense, one loses a hobby.

Something to think about....


You've been reading my diary ;-) Ham, electronics, but I did photography in the 60's, then into microfilm, then into microfilm equipment, computers, electronics, programming, and now an IT supervisor.

I've wrecked almost every good hobby I've had moving into the job market. It's been long enough, I'm back into analog film and hollowstate electronics now, just treat computers as a tool at home.

There's been a couple of well thought out comments that better said my thoughts when I made the comment about what folks do at 40 years old vs what they were trained to do. Lots of really good observations and advice.

College/school has the opportunity to teach you some basics, math, language, and how to learn. The big one, and one that was not taught when I was in school,,, is how to learn a new trick on your own. Politically correct plagiarism is a skill that will never let you down. (OK,,, research, home work, citations and so on;-)

David Brown
11-29-2010, 02:11 PM
I really don't wish to come off as a total creep, but how does someone (including a high school student) decide they want to be something when they do not know:

An explanation of what the occupation consists of.
What is needed to become a photographer?
What sort of background is needed?
what is the estimated job outlook and earnings expected to make in this field.


When I was in high school, I wanted to be a lawyer. I knew no more about that profession than this young budding photojournalist. Why did I want to be a lawyer? Perry Mason.

Once I did what this young lady is doing (only I did the research myself, I couldn't ask online) and discovered what lawyers really do, I lost the desire.

Seriously - good luck with your ambition. I do applaud you for looking into it at this stage. There are a lot of teenagers that see only the glamour image of a profession (Perry Mason, "band" photographer, etc.) and don't really know what the job is in real life. Hang in there! :)

DWThomas
11-29-2010, 02:21 PM
No inside knowledge here, but another suggestion would be to keep an eye open for a school that has some sort of program to get into internships in the proposed profession, ideally as early as possible. In my extended family I have recently seen a niece go through three years of hotel and restaurant management. Then after a six week summer internship working in the back kitchen at a local upscale restaurant she decided maybe that wasn't her field. I do think it's hard for someone 16 or 17 to decided what many of these jobs really are going to be like once they are in them (heck, it happens to fifty year olds!)

Mainecoonmaniac
11-29-2010, 02:48 PM
I really don't wish to come off as a total creep, but how does someone (including a high school student) decide they want to be something when they do not know:


When I was in high school, I wanted to be a lawyer. I knew no more about that profession than this young budding photojournalist. Why did I want to be a lawyer? Perry Mason.

Once I did what this young lady is doing (only I did the research myself, I couldn't ask online) and discovered what lawyers really do, I lost the desire.

Seriously - good luck with your ambition. I do applaud you for looking into it at this stage. There are a lot of teenagers that see only the glamour image of a profession (Perry Mason, "band" photographer, etc.) and don't really know what the job is in real life. Hang in there! :)

My generation was the TV show "Lou Grant". A lot of men of my generation, now approaching 50, wanted to be like "Animal" the photojournalist. It inspired a bunch of young kids to be newspaper photographers. When I was in photo school, out of the hundreds and hundreds of students, only a handful had careers in photojournalism. It was tough 25 years ago and way tougher now. Only the most dedicated and talented will make it. I got my feet wet shooting for the college paper. I didn't have the temperament for it.

guitstik
11-29-2010, 03:19 PM
When my wife and I were married, over 20 years ago, I was attending art college and I was making a living doing architectural photography, a few portraits and selling art prints in a Gallery. After our first child was born my wife informed me that I had to make a more substantial living than the hit or miss that photography offered. I had not done any real photography for 18 years until my daughter expressed an interest in it about 8 months ago. Whether or not she does anything with it, I owe her (don't tell her that) for getting ME back into something that I love.

As far as my daughter, I think that she is more enamored with the perceived romance of band photography. She doesn't really understand what it means to make a living at photography. I have tried to explain to her that she really needs to look at doing other types of photography to supplement the band photography unless she can get a job with a major label or a magazine. Fortunately a friend of mine knows a successful band photographer that does work for a major label and I have tried to get her to talk to him, no go so far.

Mainecoonmaniac
11-29-2010, 03:28 PM
I was a commercial shooter in a small town. Although I had steady clients, I was barely making a living and wanted a health care and a steady income. I switch over to IT over 10 years ago and never looked back. I just shoot for the joy of it and I'm having much more fun.

tkamiya
11-29-2010, 04:16 PM
I think - it would be nearly impossible to teach 16 year old the difference between passion and practicality without causing him/her to entirely lose interest in the process. Most 16 year olds simply don't have enough life experience and maturity to consider all the implications. In some ways, at their age they shouldn't be all that concerned with all the nouances of "maintaining the right balance" in their lives.

I *think* the best advise anyone can give is to direct them in such a way that knowledge and skills they gain are usable in more ways than just one. Skills to observe, skills to be patient, skills to think independently, not to mention skills to write, read, listen, etc, etc, etc are invaluable. Maybe encourage her to pursue this goal.... then along the way, steer her into directions that can be useful to this goal as well as others so she can fall back on it if she has to.

Yeah, maybe her interest will change too. I know mine did.