View Full Version : A Kodachrome type film formula!

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Mustafa Umut Sarac
12-31-2010, 05:54 PM
Ron ,

Try google patents or uspto.gov server but its a pain to find the suitable plug in to watch images with goverment site. So google patents is best but its search engine is not correct I guess. It can give unrelated documents but not whatever you want. You must indicate the years at below and get tired , furious after few hours.

Lets ask the right question , what gives velvia , velvia look , kodachrome , kodachrome look.

I had been asked before to create the inkjet inks from kodachrome formulas.

Lets get practical , If we treat these colorless inks with developer and get the real colors and if we do every photoshop trick , do we get kodachrome look print ?

Or do we need extra step and make rgb kodachrome gel coated filters and tricolor process and scan , than photoshop and print with kodachrome cmy processed inks.

If this will give me homemade kodachrome , lets start from somewhere.

I am talking about inkjet.


Photo Engineer
12-31-2010, 06:07 PM

The dyes give the Kodachrome look. With those dyes, you can recreate even digital Kodachrome. Blah!

I am having problems with the Adobe plug in. My search works, but I cannot see the file. I get an Adobe error message.


Mustafa Umut Sarac
12-31-2010, 06:41 PM
Ron ,

With a great possibility , your computer is infected. Some hackers or robots use flash plug in as the door inside the computer. So try to load flash , if it does not work , it does not work anytime , so you need to reinstall the windows. Youtube videos , nude art photography :) sites are responsible.

Yes , I want my kodachrome back with chemistry and some computer , mechanics replaces the hard work.
So you are the expert and became dominant force and responsible person from experimenters.
Please tell us how can we color these colorless inks , how we will prepare the colorless inks and color them.
Patents are for skilled persons and we are the least on this subject.
Some can be toxic , some can have no needed to contact with air , temperatures , processes and the mixing procedure , ...... etc etc.


Photo Engineer
12-31-2010, 07:04 PM
You dissolve the coupler in a solvent and add alkali. Then add a solution of CD3 in water. Add some peroxide and watch the fun. Color will form instantly and get deeper and deeper. Use a Separatory Funnel with a solvent plus this dye mix to extract the dye into a suitable solvent such as hexane or benzene, and then evaporate the solvent until you have solid dye. You may have to cool the reaction mixture during dye formation in order to prevent oxidation of the dye or overheating!

Use as prescribed by your handy digital engineer. You are now outside my field.


Mustafa Umut Sarac
12-31-2010, 07:06 PM

Photo Engineer
12-31-2010, 07:09 PM
That is, of course, the correct patent. And now, my acrobat reader is working. I had to shut down Mozilla and restart it, then it crashed and sent a report, and then I started Acrobat as a stand-alone program and within IE. Then, back to Mozilla and all was fine. My system checks free of virus contamination.


Mustafa Umut Sarac
12-31-2010, 07:29 PM
Be careful about flash if you use windows. If your computer starts to slow down , be sure something going on.

I tried to understand the patent and if I am not wrong , it gives developer formulas , not couplers as you indicate to me to prepare my solid dye.
There are many coupler patents listed and of course I dont have any clue which one used.

May be I am understanding everything wrong and these developers are the couplers but really I have no idea , I am sorry for the newcomer if I drive him her to wrong direction.

PEs posts are the reference , no way mine

Can you give me these couplers formulas and preparation details.

Happy New Year ! Its 3 AM here.

Photo Engineer
12-31-2010, 07:54 PM

The 3 couplers and 2 developing agents are there in the formulas. For example, OTOMH, the cyan is a Napthol derivative and the magenta is a Pyrazolone. The yellow is probably an Acetoacetate. I checked the formulas beforehand, and they are there and are complete.


Mustafa Umut Sarac
12-31-2010, 07:58 PM
Thank you PE , You are great.

Mustafa Umut Sarac
12-31-2010, 09:02 PM
incorporated couplers is as follows: --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Color Developing Composition I

benzyl alcohol 0-12 ml. Alkali metal hexametaphosphate 0-3 g. Alkali metal sulfite 2-20 g. Tri alkali metal phosphate .sup.. 12H.sub.2 O 10-60 g. Alkali metal bromide 0-5 g. Alkali metal iodide (0.1 % soln.) 0-15 ml. Color developing agent of Formula I 0.5-15 g. Ethylenediamine sulfate 0-20 g. Citrazinic acid 0-5 g. Dithiooctanediol 0-5 g. Water to 1 l. __________________________________________________ ________________________

and sufficient alkali, e.g., alkali metal hydroxide, alkali metal carbonate, etc., to adjust the pH in the range of from about 10.0 to about 14.0. The alkali metals used to advantage to make the compounds of the color developing composition are sodium, potassium, lithium, etc. Typical color developing compositions used to advantage in processes of our invention for photographic elements that do not contain couplers are as follows: --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Cyan and Yellow Color Developing Compositions
Alkali metal hexametaphosphate 0-3 g. Alkali metal sulfite 3.0-20 g. Alklai metal bromide 0.2-5 g. Tri alkali metal phosphate .sup.. 12H.sub.2 O 20.0-60 g. Alkali metal iodide (0.1% solution) 2.0-50 ml. Color developing agent of Formula I 0.5-10 g. Antifoggant (1% solution) 1.0-40 ml. Alkali metal sulfate 0-70 g. Diffusible coupler 0.5-8 g. Hexylene glycol 0-20 ml. Diethyl hydroxylamine (85%) 0.3-10 ml. Competing coupler (e.g., citrazinic acid) 0-8 g. Auxiliary developer (e.g., 1-phenyl-3-pyrazolidone) 0.1-2 g. Alkali to produce a pH in range of 10-14 Water to 1 l. __________________________________________________ ________________________

In this composition, a phenol or naphthol cyan-die-forming coupler is used in cyan developing compositions and an open chain acyl acetamide type yellow-dye-forming coupler is used in yellow developing compositions. Antifoggants, such as, 5-nitrobenzimidazole, 5-nitrobenzimidazole-6-nitrate, etc., are used to advantage as the antifoggant. Any of the alkalis used in photograPhic developer solutions are used to advantage in the color developing composition including alkali metal hydroxides, alkali metal carbonates, borax, etc. The alkali metals used to advantage to make the compounds of the cyan and yellow color developing compositions and the following magenta color developing composition are sodium, potassium and lithium.

These are the same as the cyan and yellow developing compositions, except that they do not contain an auxiliary developing agent or any antifogging agent, but they do contain in addition to the cOmponents listed above:

Alkali metal thiocyanate 0.3- 5 g./l. Ethylenediamine 1.00- 8 ml./l. A chemical fogging agent for silver halide 0-2 g./l. __________________________________________________ ________________________

Chemical fogging agents used to advantage include the nucleating agents of Hanson et al., U.S. Pat. No. 3,246,987, e.g., the amine boranes (e.g., trimethylamine borane, diethylamine borane, triethylamine borane, tert-butylamine borane, pyridine borane, 2,6-lutidine borane, etc.), the polyamine boranes (.e.g, ethylenediamine diborane, hydrazine diborane, etc.), a phosphine borane (e.g., dimethylphosphine borane), an arsine borane (e.g., dimethylarsine borane), a stilbene borane (e.g., dimethylstilbene borane ), a borazine (e.g., borazine, N,N',N'-trimethyl borazine, N,N',N"-trimethoxyborazine, etc.). When no chemical fogging agent is used in the magenta color developing composition, a chemical fogging bath is advantageously used just prior to the magenta color developing composition or, alternatively, the unexposed green-sensitive silver halide emulsion layer is made developable by exposure to light. A typical chemical fogging bath has the composition:

Alkali metal hexametaphosphate 0.6 g. Alkali metal hydroxide 2.16 g. Chemical fogging agent for silver halide 0.10 g. Water to make 1 l.

Any of the chemical fogging agents listed above are uSed advantageously in this composition.

Mustafa Umut Sarac
12-31-2010, 09:12 PM
Ron ,

Are you one of the patent owners ? Amazing !!!!!!!!!!!!!


Mustafa Umut Sarac
12-31-2010, 09:33 PM
Head of the above patent cut
Color developing agent of Formula II

No. Color Developing Agent __________________________________________________ ________________________

1. N-Ethyl-N-methoxyethyl-3-methyl-p-phenylenediamine

2. N-Ethyl-N-methoxybutyl-3-methyl-p-phenylenediamine

3. N-Ethyl-N-ethoxyethyl-3-methyl-p-phenylenediamine

4. N-Ethyl-N-methoxyethyl-3-n-propyl-p-phenylenediamine

5. N-Ethyl-N-methoxyethyl-3-methoxy-p-phenylenediamine --------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6. N-Ethyl-N-butoxyethyl-3-methyl-p-phenylenediamine

These and still other developing agents of Formula I are advantageously used as the free base or as salts of organic or inorganic acids. For example, the hydrochloric acid salts, the sulfuric acid salts, the phosphoric acid salts, the oxalic acid salts, p-toluenesulfonic acid salts, the benzene disulfonic acid salts and the naphthalene disulfonic salts are used to advantage in our process.

The color developing agents of Formula I are used advantageously in aqueous alkaline color developer solutions over a wide range of concentrations, with an operable range of from about 0.5 g/l to about 15 g/l and a preferred range of from about 1.0 g/l to about 12.0 g/l. Other addenda used to advantage in these developer compositions include alkali metal chlorides, alkali metal bromides, alkali metal iodides, alkali metal sulfites, alkali metal sulfates, alkali metal carbonates, alkali metal hydroxides, alkali metal metaborates, alkali metal phosphates, ethylenediamine, citrazinic acid, antifogging agents, e.g., 5-nitrobenzimidazole, etc., an auxiliary developing agent, e.g., 1-phenyl-3-pyrazolidones, a stabilizer for developing agents (e.g., diethyl hydroxylamine, dihydroxyacetone, glycolaldehyde, glyceraldehyde, dihydroxymaleic acid, etc., sodium hexametaphosphate, etc.), etc. A typical color developing composition used in our process for a photographic element that contains incorporated couplers is as follows: --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Color Developing Composition I

Photo Engineer
12-31-2010, 09:38 PM
Well, you have not given the IUPAC names for the 3 couplers which are in the patent. They are most important!

So, for example, the cyan is: 1-Hydroxy-N-(2-acetamidophenethyl)- 2-naphthamide

The others are given in the Eastman Chemicals Catalog which lists all Kodchrome couplers.


Mustafa Umut Sarac
12-31-2010, 09:43 PM
Ron ,

Now You may survive me from barn mess.

Please tell me , what to do with formula I and what to do with color developing composition I and couplers.

Do I need to use all of these formulas and your solvent formula to get a dry dye ?

May be some can be not used.

And what would be your approximitation of cost to prepare this recipe and how much dry dye does it make ?

How much would be this result amount of dye produce ink jet ink ?


Mustafa Umut Sarac
12-31-2010, 09:45 PM
Is this catalog available online or do you write here ?

Photo Engineer
12-31-2010, 09:58 PM
I need to look it up in my library, but the patent gives several coupler formulas.


Mustafa Umut Sarac
12-31-2010, 10:13 PM
1-Hydroxy-N-(2-acetamidophenethyl)- 2-naphthamide

Is it possible to buy this chemical or others - you will find from library -from market or kodak ?

Mustafa Umut Sarac
12-31-2010, 10:16 PM
I found it.

10 grams cost 130 dollars. Here is the link :http://www.coleparmer.com/1/1/38773-n-2-acetamidophenethyl-1-hydroxy-2-naphthamide-10g.html

Mustafa Umut Sarac
12-31-2010, 10:26 PM
PE , Please provide kodachrome color coupling agents.

COLE PARMER have an extensive online catalog.


I am like an festival cowboy , animal wants to bang me to the ground , but every second , I get better control

Mustafa Umut Sarac
12-31-2010, 10:40 PM
Here is the link for color coupling agents ids and their prices from COLE PARMER.