LED red/amber bulbs for safelights?

[imush]

Pre-fogged testing with Ilford MGIV, both FB and RC, shows no safelight-induced fogging out to at least 60 minutes....

The only caveat is that none of the LEDs I tried emitted absolutely pure light. In addition to the main peak centering on the design wavelength (635nm in this case), the S-11s were also generating small blue and green spikes. I could see these clearly by simply observing the light reflected in a standard CD disc. These spikes did add to the paper fog levels after a few minutes exposure.

Ken

So there is no fog unless the paper was slightly exposed, in which case these lights would add to the fog? Why is there such a difference?

[MattKing]

So there is no fog unless the paper was slightly exposed, in which case these lights would add to the fog? Why is there such a difference?

Safelight fog manifests itself in two ways:

1) visible fogging in areas of the print that otherwise show at least some tone; and
2) degradation of highlight "sparkle" in areas that don't otherwise show any tone (think specular highlights).

The first type is easy to see with a rudimentary test. The second type is a little harder to detect.

One detects the second type by first fogging the paper slightly - just enough to overcome the paper's "inertia" to low level light. That fogging exposure is done in otherwise absolute darkness. Next, an opaque item (e.g. a ruler) is placed on the paper and different sections of the paper are exposed to the safelight for different times (e.g. 1 minute, 2 minutes, 4 minutes, 8 minutes, etc.). Then the paper is developed (again in absolute darkness).

If the safelights are completely safe the developed paper will exhibit a consistent light gray tone - you won't be able to tell where the ruler was.

If, however, the safelights are only partially safe, the sections exposed for shorter periods will be the same tone as the part hidden by the ruler, while the sections exposed for longer periods will be a darker tone than the part hidden by the ruler.

If however, the safelights are not at all safe, none of the exposed sections will be the same tone as the part hidden by the ruler.

Without the initial slight fogging, some or all of the subsequent safelight exposures may not be enough to make their effect obviously visible (in the test) even if they are enough to cause the degradation of highlights referred to above.

Hope this helps.

[dpurdy]

http://www.superbrightleds.com/cgi-bin/store/index.cgi?action=DispPage&category=MR16&Page2Disp=%2Fspecs%2Fe27-w8.htm
I have my darkroom lit with these in red. I have done extensive fog tests and I get no fog on paper or film designed for red light. I have one of these red bulbs just about a meter away from my developer tray and it is fine.
Dennis

[Ken Nadvornick]

What Matt said...

Paper has a certain exposure threshold which must be reached before a minimum tone will register. The danger in safelight fogging is not really a gross darkening of the paper. That's easy to recognize. Instead, it's the tendency to "use up" that pre-tone threshold with non-image forming exposure. When the intended image is then projected on top of that, the resulting highlight tone will end up developing out too dark.

And to make things even worse, when that now too dark highlight tone is allowed to dry, the "dry down" effect will render it even darker yet. The net effect is one of an unexpectedly lower contrast, flat looking print. These are the "degraded highlights" referred to above.

Often the source of the problem is not readily apparent. The printer will claim to have already tested for safelight fogging and found none. But if the test was not a version of that second, pre-fogged test as described by Matt, then chances are good the source of the effect will be missed.

Ken

[Ronald Moravec]

Red works but is less efficient than proper amber filter, ie less usefull light to human eye b/4 fogging.

Good news it preserves night vision better

[Dave Mueller]

I built my safelight using an amber led module of 12 or 16 leds, it worked great and spectrally was an almost perfect match for an OC filter. I can't remember the manufacturer, it have been Luxeon.

[imush]

I got official data from Polybrite, maker of these 1W bulbs (http://www.goodmart.com/products/polybrite-radiance-1w-red-s11-led-lamp-s11-r-1.htm). These seem to be not as bright as OptiLED, but should be adequate for a small darkroom.

Here is their document (https://docs.google.com/a/mushinsky.net/leaf?id=1P5GUwljXQnlXM8WgI9iEbf57OPKoA2OxVWKmzU-NslPk_HRlXUqcF8FpXDvm&sort=name&layout=list&num=50) with the spectrum graph. There is slight blue noise; probably not enough to worry.

[chrisf]

I have been using Polybrite's M60 red, which has a bigger bulb than the S11. Five years leaving it on day and night. The only time I shut it off is when I am working with film.

[Jerry Thirsty]

These LED bulb looks promising to me both in Red and Amber. Might have to give them a try they are cheap enough and the give spectral graphs of the colors.

http://www.superbrightleds.com/cgi-bin/store/index.cgi?action=DispPage&category=MR16&Page2Disp=%2Fspecs%2FE27-W24.htm

I use these (red or amber, depending on the paper type). I put them in a small clamp-on housing, hang them from the rafters about 10 feet from the trays, and bounce them off the white walls. I tested them with a couple papers when I first got them but didn't have any fogging after 10 minutes so I stopped.

[jp498]

Update: I have installed two of these:

http://www1.dealextreme.com/productimages/sku_5136_1.jpg

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/18-led-e27-light-bulb-110v-red-5136

http://www.f64.nu/photo/tmp/lff/darkroom/DSC_0074.jpg

I bought a $30 4' tracklight at lowes. About 5' over the enlarger or tray, it puts out a bright red spot about 2' in diameter. I might make something to diffuse it a little bit more. It is so bright, I can read typewritten text even at floor level. It's like having restaurant heat lamps in the darkroom except it puts out zero heat. I tested a piece of Ilford MGIV with steps for upto 4 minutes as it's the fastest paper I have (The warmtone is slower), and developed it extra long and saw absolutely nothing on the paper. It is amazing how bright you can have these and not fog paper. I have one beaming on the developer tray and I can watch the highlights developing on prints. You don't want one of these LED lights bare aimed right at the enlarger easel as it's so bright it will make it hard for you to focus/compose. Aim it off to the side or diffuse it a little bit.

In addition to these two LED lights on a tracklight, I have a big old amber Kodak safelight on the ceiling as pictured. So the darkroom is a much brighter place than needed. If I order more stuff from dealextreme sometime, I'll get an extra bulb and aim the third can that came with the tracklight into the wash tray so my daughter can have plenty of light to play in the water while I work.

http://www.f64.nu/photo/tmp/lff/darkroom/_DSC1779.JPG

[youngrichard]

Maplins sell mains voltage LED lamps rated at 1.8 watts. Problem is they are on a GU10 fitting and so far as I can find you can't get a bayonet to GU10 adapter to allow easy fitting to a bayonet socket. So I bodged a couple onto old bayonet fittings (don't think you can get them now either) and put them in my 2 Kodak Beehives. Didn't have the nerve to do without the orange filters already there so I put them back in. Gives a more directional light which I have tested and found safe with max-flashed Ilford MG paper for 10 minutes on the enlarger baseboard, about 6 feet from the nearest beehive.
Maplins used to quote a wavelength for these lamps which come in several colours but I notice in my latest catalogue, now a year old, that they no longer do, though they do for other LEDs.


Richard
I have just located Bayonet Cap to GU10 adaptors on Amazon - they come from HongKong, very cheap. I have seen several LED bulbs on the links in this thread, but they all seem to be Edison Screw. So I have ordered a couple of the adaptors. As I noted above I bodged amber LEDs into Kodak beehives but have kept the rather ancient amber filters in, to diffuse the light which is otherwise rather directional, and, as I now have found out, to suppress those random spikes of other wavelengths.

And apropos the bulbs seen in links, some of them have orange or red glass globes - are they white LEDs with coloured glass? Because that is not the same as an amber LED - or is it?
Richard