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Gerald C Koch
05-30-2011, 12:20 AM
I don't think "great artists" do any one thing universally.

Where in my post do you see the phrase "all great artists"? :)

Tony Egan
05-30-2011, 07:54 AM
Something odd about dissing traditionalists on APUG...

Likes:
The expression "all mouth and no trousers" (I believe one American translation is something like "all hat and no cattle") ;)

lxdude
05-30-2011, 02:31 PM
Where in my post do you see the phrase "all great artists"? :)
Not there. But that is how it reads.

Michael R 1974
05-30-2011, 03:26 PM
Gerald is pretty correct on this, and it is that way in most of the arts and sciences. Music has some excellent examples. Generally the greatest creative minds recognize the beauty and importance of great work that came before them, even if they themselves are forward thinkers.

Roger Thoms
05-30-2011, 04:29 PM
I just rediscovered a real photographic turn off, dead battery, and no spare, real turn off for sure.

Roger

keithwms
05-30-2011, 04:35 PM
There is a perfectly reasonable contrary view, though, Michael, that too much emphasis on appreciation and critical study of what others have done can really fill up a curriculum and leave little time for tinkering. If you look at how all the great artists and scientists developed, I think you'll find that all of them experimented in a lot of different directions. That takes time. In classical music, it is widely accepted that one cannot be a composer and a performer (or critic)... it really takes full effort to accomplish one or the other. And we need both, of course.

Even in the physical sciences (my area), in which you'd think that standing on the shoulders of others is the best way to see forward, i.e. through incremental progress, this can be a real issue. As a teacher, I think we have gone waaay to far from experimentalism and learning through direct experience. The result is a generation of students who can google anything but who are terrified of venturing their own attempt at damn near anything. Education has become so 2-dimensional and dry. No seeds for innovation.

There is a beautiful quote by Giaever in his Nobel lecture that goes something like this: I am very fortunate not to have known all the good reasons why I shouldn't have done these experiments. In other words, the prevailing theories suggested that his work wasn't worth doing. But he was "dumb" enough to do them and the results were remarkable.

Obviously balance is always good. Everybody needs the basic schooling and guidance. But I really think that throughout academics, right across the spectrum including arts and science, there isn't nearly enough experimentalism.

I got a bit off the topic, but those are my sincere convictions as a teacher.

Michael R 1974
05-30-2011, 04:55 PM
I don't disagree. Experimentation is critical. But there is a fine line for me I guess. When lomographers, people burning holes in their paper negatives, or purposely using expired materials, or the worst lens they can find, or no lens at all, tell me "Ansel sucks", I have a hard time taking them seriously.

David Brown
05-30-2011, 05:06 PM
In classical music, it is widely accepted that one cannot be a composer and a performer (or critic)...

Even in the physical sciences (my area), ...

Respectfully disagree.

In my area, music (this photography thing is just a hobby) I don't think this is "widely accepted" at all. There are certainly examples to the contrary from every age: Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Listz, Bernstein - the list goes on and on.

keithwms
05-30-2011, 05:54 PM
David, it's true that these are notably great performers and composers. I was thinking more of today's craft when I wrote that- the repertoire is so large and challenging now that it'd be very hard to accomplish both. And it's hard to get the sponsorship of a king or queen now :) Anyway, you're right, that was an inaccurate generalization on my part.

Michael, I agree and I think different for its own sake isn't terribly satisfying. It does occasionally lead to something interesting though. I have seen a lot of very interesting mistakes, even.

Anyway, I was attempting to promote balance.

winger
05-30-2011, 07:17 PM
Even in the physical sciences (my area), in which you'd think that standing on the shoulders of others is the best way to see forward, i.e. through incremental progress, this can be a real issue. As a teacher, I think we have gone waaay to far from experimentalism and learning through direct experience. The result is a generation of students who can google anything but who are terrified of venturing their own attempt at damn near anything. Education has become so 2-dimensional and dry. No seeds for innovation.
I know this is off topic for the thread - apologies! But I have to mention that in the lab where I used to work, accreditation has had the effect of making the chemists do everything just by protocol, rather than by common sense or knowledge and experience. They no longer reason their way through something, they just follow the written "rules". Though I miss the paycheck, I'm glad I don't have to deal with that.

My turn ons:
-deep, rich prints
-texture I can feel by sight
-visual puns and humor

My turn offs:
-things I've seen before too many times
-something I know I could do better

Yup, I know it when I see it. :)

ROL
05-30-2011, 07:30 PM
Someone once remarked that to tell whether a photograph is artistic or pornographic; "the artistic photograph always contains a plinth or an urn." :)

What does a Grecian urn? ;)

I guess I'm the only one who doesn't get the punny reference as quoted here. :confused:

I believe the funny punny actually goes more like this:

MB1: It's a Grecian urn.
MB2: What's a Grecian urn?
MB1: Oh, about a dollar and a half.
:p
* MB = Marx Bros?

Turn-ons:
Compelling, well-composed, finely executed prints of any type or description (and that includes digital though I'm no digital fan).

Turn-offs:
Photographers who dislike any subject or style that isn't theirs, and disparage the efforts of others who are honest and sincere in there image and print making (especially those who eschew a certain style because of their own insincere, failed, aping attempts).

darinwc
05-31-2011, 02:04 AM
I know this is off topic for the thread - apologies! ...

Thats OK, this thread has gone a number of ways I never expected ( furry pussies !?). But, threads are like children, you have to allow them to do their own thing.

Dave Martiny
05-31-2011, 09:12 AM
Worst turn-off in a photograph?

For me, it's a title.

I find that some titles will include words that can indelibly skew my interpretation of a photo in a way that can be annoying and counterproductive to my ability to appreciate it on my own terms.

Almost all my photos are titled simply by "Location, date" or "Untitled, frame number, date".

Gerald C Koch
05-31-2011, 02:30 PM
Gerald is pretty correct on this, and it is that way in most of the arts and sciences. Music has some excellent examples. Generally the greatest creative minds recognize the beauty and importance of great work that came before them, even if they themselves are forward thinkers.

Thank you for getting to the idea of my post. Regretfully some others infer or assume and then criticize.

I was thinking of Picasso who painted in a traditional and representation style when he first started. The "Boy with Horse" painting is an example. Van Gogh "The Potato Eaters" is another example. Shostakovitch composing a series of 24 preludes and fugues. A jazz musician like Keith Jarrett also records classical music. There are, of course, many, many other examples.

Gerald C Koch
05-31-2011, 03:05 PM
Worst turn-off in a photograph?

For me, it's a title.

I find that some titles will include words that can indelibly skew my interpretation of a photo in a way that can be annoying and counterproductive to my ability to appreciate it on my own terms.

On the other hand ocassionally the viewer does need a slight nudge.