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CGW
06-10-2011, 08:10 AM
Yes, we'll all be rooned said Hanrahan...

Praise every hipster you see with a lomo. Urge them and their friends to buy 3 or 4 more dianas and shoot as much film as they can. Instead of die-hipster-die it should be shoot-hipster-shoot.

Sure. I even give 'em film when I'm out shooting, though I hear Tom Lehrer's song, "The Old Dope Peddler," whenever I do.

Still, the hipsters have the attention span of lab rats and will move on when the herd of independent minds sniffs something tastier.

Aristophanes
06-10-2011, 10:26 AM
This threads far too 'serious' for lomography. Film photography is very serious stuff and toy cameras make a mockery of that. If people are having fun we must put a stop to that.

smcclarin
06-11-2011, 11:01 AM
the Lomo effect at best, is only an indicator of emerging popularity among mostly a niche group, and ocassionally among professional photographers embracing the (while the younger generation would term the "Film Renaisance") renewed youthful interest in a fuzzy concept through marketing film with a snapshot style that favors artifacts and uncorrected lense issues. Who knew Chromatic aberration and severe lens flare were going to be so cool in the future?

I imagine there are more Mamiya RB67 cameras in the world selling now at less than 1/3 their original price that would (for only one camera model) ammount to more than all of the Lomo sales for a year in good economic times, and that doesn't even include the money generated from the first release sales of this same series at full retail. Lomo is just a drop in an ocean of Global Camera and Film camera sales.

Lomo cameras wont have much longevity and I suspect wont take a beating like the old classic fantastic's do, being almost entirely plastic the lomos will break faster than a smartphone, despite sensational marketing to a generation of people spoonfed on instant gratification with low expectations.

I am hoping that the Lomo crowd eventually turns to classic Fantastic as a means of using their enjoyment for a cool camera for longer than a couple years, but not before I get my Mamiya Set fully situated at current market prices. seriously 200.00US for some of the finest medium format glass and 3.75 a roll of quality 120 film...How can people not want to explore higher quality photography?

I think the uptick in film sales is more representative of a more general return to film use with all kinds of vintage cameras, both as an educational tool and as a process of discovery that leads to an image worth more in terms of value to the photographer than its digital counterpart, the magic seems to be with the analogue experience, particularly with instant film. I have learned basic compositional skills and evaluation in the digital realm but my Film camera is changing the way I view the world (shallow and Deep DOF, with a DOF preview lever on my Mamiya-Sekor lens is a must experience Phenomenon that will teach more in 5 seconds than a digital camera will in 5 years)

CGW
06-11-2011, 01:48 PM
the Lomo effect at best, is only an indicator of emerging popularity among mostly a niche group, and ocassionally among professional photographers embracing the (while the younger generation would term the "Film Renaisance") renewed youthful interest in a fuzzy concept through marketing film with a snapshot style that favors artifacts and uncorrected lense issues. Who knew Chromatic aberration and severe lens flare were going to be so cool in the future?

I imagine there are more Mamiya RB67 cameras in the world selling now at less than 1/3 their original price that would (for only one camera model) ammount to more than all of the Lomo sales for a year in good economic times, and that doesn't even include the money generated from the first release sales of this same series at full retail. Lomo is just a drop in an ocean of Global Camera and Film camera sales.

Lomo cameras wont have much longevity and I suspect wont take a beating like the old classic fantastic's do, being almost entirely plastic the lomos will break faster than a smartphone, despite sensational marketing to a generation of people spoonfed on instant gratification with low expectations.

I am hoping that the Lomo crowd eventually turns to classic Fantastic as a means of using their enjoyment for a cool camera for longer than a couple years, but not before I get my Mamiya Set fully situated at current market prices. seriously 200.00US for some of the finest medium format glass and 3.75 a roll of quality 120 film...How can people not want to explore higher quality photography?

I think the uptick in film sales is more representative of a more general return to film use with all kinds of vintage cameras, both as an educational tool and as a process of discovery that leads to an image worth more in terms of value to the photographer than its digital counterpart, the magic seems to be with the analogue experience, particularly with instant film. I have learned basic compositional skills and evaluation in the digital realm but my Film camera is changing the way I view the world (shallow and Deep DOF, with a DOF preview lever on my Mamiya-Sekor lens is a must experience Phenomenon that will teach more in 5 seconds than a digital camera will in 5 years)

You're right. A big problem, though, is the disappearance of used film gear from the remaining old school camera stores, which makes it hard for would-be film shooters to shop and learn. Many tell me they're scared to buy off the big auction site simply for not knowing beans about what they're looking at. I at least had the advantage of shops around Toronto that carried large used inventories 10 years ago I could play around with--and later buy when prices tanked just a few years later.

konsomod
06-13-2011, 06:04 AM
I don't think we're looking at the full picture here.
Lomographic Society makes mainly replicas of LOMO cameras which were produced in the USSR and sold in communist countries (USSR, Yugoslavia, Cuba, etc). These were made because the soviets wanted to document the people's lives. THat's when two students from Vienna found out about the cameras right at the moment the USSR fell; so production at the LOMO factory stopped. So they founded Lomographic Society International so they could make money out of "fake-vintage" cameras, and they also make their own toy cameras.

I don't like the new Lomography cameras, I own an original LOMO which I find much better and filled with history. I think while it is good that more film is being sold, Lomography might give people that don't remember film the wrong perception of what analogue photography is and isn't. I'm not saying people shouldn't have fun, I'm saying that it would suck that 10 years from now professional photography would be lo-fi pictures taken with chinese plastic cameras.

I hope I made my point clear.

-konsomod

markbarendt
06-13-2011, 07:22 AM
You're right. A big problem, though, is the disappearance of used film gear from the remaining old school camera stores, which makes it hard for would-be film shooters to shop and learn. Many tell me they're scared to buy off the big auction site simply for not knowing beans about what they're looking at. I at least had the advantage of shops around Toronto that carried large used inventories 10 years ago I could play around with--and later buy when prices tanked just a few years later.

I agree that there is a big problem with the knowledge flow. This is true for all cameras from what I can see, not just for film.

I was on a field trip with the local camera club a week or so back and, like we all did when we were new, the newer members were struggling with exposure, so I helped a few newer members figure out how to set exposure on there cameras.

I found it truly amazing how hard it is to measure, set, and lock exposure on these fancy little cameras. I find it equally amazing that people who are interested enough to come to a club to learn more about shooting end up with such hard to use tools.

With the collapse of the traditional camera store business model I am half amazed that "Art Supply" stores haven't stepped in here.

konsomod
06-13-2011, 09:20 AM
You're right. A big problem, though, is the disappearance of used film gear from the remaining old school camera stores, which makes it hard for would-be film shooters to shop and learn. Many tell me they're scared to buy off the big auction site simply for not knowing beans about what they're looking at. I at least had the advantage of shops around Toronto that carried large used inventories 10 years ago I could play around with--and later buy when prices tanked just a few years later.

Agreed - this certainly doesn't help. In my town's local photography shop (which is also where I develop my shots) the only thing you see film-related is Kodak 200 film. If I want more i gotta go to the big city, which is still far away, and I gotta know the right stores.

SafetyBob
06-20-2011, 11:46 AM
After spending the last half hour going through this thread (I normally hit the For Sale, Medium Format, and 35mm forums) I had no idea what LOMO was. The quick web search of it was interesting to say the least. I hope those cameras do bring a strong majority of those younger photographers into this world of photography.


I spent my youth into photography like you wouldn't believe, but virtually gave it all up as stuff like job and all the rest of the life took all my time. But I never gave up on the dream. It was probably 6 years ago I pulled out that old Minolta XE-7 to try and take some Christmas pictures of grand children. The shutter was old and tired from not being used....I was abusing that poor camera and didn't even know it let alone understand it. That year, I got a couple of good shots but most were from early digital camera crap because the majority of the film suffered from a bad shutter. After experiencing the frustration of digital P&S cameras that has been spoke of on this thread I started looking into "old" gear.


Without hardly any information I knew that an old Nikon F4 absolutely MUST be a good camera. It was only after I found APUG and photo.net to some degree have you guys educated me and others about just what we are buying, and what to do to get better photographs. Now let's just say I have enough stuff to keep me busy for some time. Thanks to your motivation, I am just about ready to truly explore 6x9, 6x7, and 6x6 photography world.


I have studied your photographs, anaylized your composition.......I have a long road ahead too. Just like the 20 somethings that are having fun with the toy cameras. They just need to see some of us out there to give them motivation. Particularly, they need to see the results of what a quality camera with highly motivated photographer behind it can do. The 20 somethings will soon be distracted by chasing kids around trying to take photos.....it may be several years before they get to the "landscape" phase of their photography hobby like I am just entering.

All this just reminds me that I need an RB so bad.....or do you think it would be appropriate to come out of the wood work with a Mamiya Press in pristine condition? For now, that's what it will be with me. I would think that would be a conversation starter if there ever was one......how many people go out with an old press camera?


And while many kids do take photos with their iPhones and iTouch's, I have seen actual photos printed from the latest generation and was suprised at how good it was. Especially for what it is. But all the kids love it when I break out the "real" cameras. They don't see it much anymore other than at my house.......guess it makes them feel special. Most kids love having a picture in their hands to show.....although they will probably have a copy in their iPhone too. They just have to wait a week for it though......


I talked to the owner of our one big, last photography place in Oklahoma City awhile back. He said there is a slow, but steady call for all things film. And I believe he said that he is processing more film now than last year. That may be due to some dedicated photographers that have also convienced their school boards into keeping photography as an elective in high school, or at least the photography club alive. A friend who works there always can tell when the class starts and what phase they are in by how in less than a week they can virtually have no film on the shelf.


As said previously, I hope they don't need an RB before I can get one cheap!!


Bob E.

cmo
06-23-2011, 04:04 AM
A few days ago there was the "night of museums" here in Mainz, Germany. In my art & culture club I showed people how to photograph with selfmade pinhole cameras, how to develop film in caffenol and a darkroom in general. About one hundred people, most of them between 18 und 30 years old, visited our tiny darkroom and stood in awe.

About 15 people asked whether I could offer a course for analog photography and darkroom work. I could sell these courses, no kidding.

Is there an analog renaissance? Yes, definitely.

Mr 35mm
06-26-2011, 10:40 PM
An interesting thread, food for thought.
I would happily "go Lomo" alongside proper 35mm work, as I enjoy all aspects of photography. From artistical representation to technical prowess.
ANY boost to this form of graphical representation should be viewed as good, especially if the promise of new film comes with it.
Just my 20 pence...

Plate Voltage
07-24-2011, 10:36 AM
As much as I'm not interested in buying a Holga or Diana camera and never participated in any lomography, I can't object to those who do if it drives film demand and helps manufacturers stay in production because that benefits all of us who do film photography with higher quality equipment.

In a way, this situation's similar to the one that audio guys who like vacuum tubes find themselves in. The volume of vacuum tube business done by electric guitar players is large compared to the number of people running tube amplifiers at home. However, even the most die hard classical music fan that can't stand rock and roll and hates the sound of electric guitars won't object to large volumes of guitar players buying EL34 tubes for their Marshall amps, for example, when it keep the few remaining tube makers in business and helps ensure the ongoing availability of new tubes for their stereo amplifier by extension. I wouldn't be too hard on the lomogrophers since high-quality film photographers also stand to benefit from the increased film sales they generate regardless of how or with what equipment the lomographers run it through.

Vilk
07-24-2011, 11:22 AM
Instead of die-hipster-die it should be shoot-hipster-shoot.

...and then die :cool:

Chan Tran
07-25-2011, 11:25 PM
I can't believe the price of some of these Lomo cameras. They can't be that good can they?

michaelbsc
07-26-2011, 07:45 AM
I can't believe the price of some of these Lomo cameras. They can't be that good can they?

No. But the marketing is that good. My nephew wanted one, and he asked me about it. I offered him a pristine Yashica D, but it just didn't measure up in his eyes.

zsas
07-26-2011, 04:22 PM
Not sure where to put this info.

Sorry to report that Kodak's earnings released today reported a 14% decrease in the film division ($396 million 2nd quarter 2011 vs $460 2nd quarter 2010). Let's hope it stabilizes and increases again!

"...film group revenue down 14 percent at $396 million."

Per:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Kodak-posts-wider-2Q-loss-on-apf-3130566025.html

Diapositivo
07-26-2011, 06:20 PM
The ugly side of these reports is that you can rarely find the information you look for. In the case of Kodak, it would be very interesting to see a break-down of profit (and loss) for each division. I understand that the repartition of certain fixed and overhead costs over product lines is quite artificial and debatable, but some information would be better than no information at all.

Specifically I would like to ask Kodak: is the film division profitable? We don't know the answer. 14% decrease in revenue is no small decrease, but it might be that the division is still "profitable", given a certain arbitrary allocation of common costs.

This new 600ppi POD-quasi-offset printing technology is very interesting, but where is it? Who sells it? If APUG wanted to print a book with this technology, where would they go?

michaelbsc
07-26-2011, 07:22 PM
The ugly side of these reports is that you can rarely find the information you look for. .....

Specifically I would like to ask Kodak: is the film division profitable? We don't know the answer. 14% decrease in revenue is no small decrease, but it might be that the division is still "profitable", given a certain arbitrary allocation of common costs.

This was exactly what I thought as well, where's the real meat? Revenues are down 14%, but as PE pointed out that they've closed a whole production line in the past quarter so what are their cost savings? Has the margin gone up? (Probably not, but we can hope.)

MB

zsas
07-26-2011, 07:37 PM
I think I have an answer to the above questions related to earnings of the Film Division. I found it in the quarterly report. I believe I calculate a 94% decline in earnings ($2 million 2Q11 earnings vs $36 million 2Q10 earnings). I sure hope they can continue to make profits in our Film Division!!!

"Film, Photofinishing and Entertainment Group second-quarter sales were $396 million, a 14% decline from the year-ago quarter, driven by continuing industry-related volume declines. Second-quarter earnings from operations for the segment were $2 million, compared with earnings of $36 million in the year-ago period. This decrease in earnings was primarily driven by significantly increased raw material costs, particularly silver, and industry-related declines in volumes, partially offset by cost reductions and price actions across the segment."

per Kodak's 2nd Quarter 2011 Results
http://investor.kodak.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=115911&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1588842&highlight=

Plate Voltage
07-26-2011, 08:05 PM
Specifically, how much of that decline is attributable to the Entertainment part of that division? A breakdown of film sales changes by product would be interesting. A good chunk of that could be explained if Hollywood's been shooting more digital and less Kodak Vision while Ektachrome and Portra sales could be more or less unchanged, for example.

fred
08-01-2011, 10:12 AM
This is indeed good news!
We can use it. Let's start with an apug 'worldwide open door day' (apug-wwodd), once a year, where we invite all young lomographers (and all the others youngsters) to our darkrooms and where we show all (at least a part of it) our knowledge around analogue photography? (off course: free of charge)

A apug world wide open door day? What do you think? For example in the month march or november.... typical darkroom days here... :-)

Kind regards
Fred