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Aurelien
06-25-2011, 03:42 AM
Indeed, I think Adox Pan 25 AND Rollei Pan 25 (very very close films) are discontinued. In fact, if my sources are sure, these films was emulsions from Filmotec (ORWO). But Filmotec has no coating facilities and used to use the Forte plant. Since Forte closed its doors, lots of references has been discontinued.



AFAIK Pan 25 (not CHS 25, which is indeed a different film, I know for sure because I have used both) is discontinued. I remember it was mentioned in a german forum some time ago.

I was a big fan of the original Agfa APX 25. I've been looking for a replacement for a long time.
I've tested Rollei Pan 25 and Adox Pan 25, but was not satiesfied. Good films, but they couldn't match Agfa APX 25.
APX 25 has had much better detail: Higher resolution, better sharpness and finer grain, and therefore was better suitable for bigger prints. Curve shape was better with APX as well.
And Agfas QC was much better, I've always got top quality.

Now, finally, I have found a replacement which completely satisfy me.
It even surpasses Agfa APX 25 significantly:

It's from Agfa-Gevaert again (fresh production from Belgium):
Agfa Copex Rapid, developed in the dedicated developer SPUR Modular UR New (part A1 + B).

With this film-developer combination I achieve the following advantages compared to Agfa APX 25 and Adox Pan 25:

- higher effective speed with ISO 40/17°
- wonderful linear chracteristic curve, excellent shadow detail and tonality
- much, much better resolution; Agfa Copex Rapid delivers incredible high resolution
- significantly better sharpness
- finer grain

The quality level is outstanding: I have directly compared 35mm Agfa Copex Rapid with my 6x6 medium format Plus-X, Fomapan 100 and FP4+ shots (exactly same shooting conditions). Made 16x20" prints from both.
The 35mm Agfa Copex Rapid / Spur Modular UR New prints surpass the prints from medium format 6x6 Plus-X, FP4+, Fomapan.
Better detail with the Copex Rapid 35mm pictures. And excellent tonality.

It's photography heaven for me: I can combine the advantages of my 35mm system with medium format quality.
And with Copex Rapid 120 I am very near to 4x5" with Fomapan 100 or FP4+.

Роберт
06-25-2011, 04:13 AM
Hallo Michael, bevor du Spekualtionen über unsere Produktionspartner in der Öffentlichkeit postest,
frage mich doch einfach. Ich bin gerne bereit, detaillierte Auskünfte zu erteilen.

Unser Haus arbeitet seit vielen Jahren nicht mehr mit dem angesprochenen Unternehmen.
Wir hatten uns statt dessen für die Agfa entschieden, so einfach ist das eigentlich.

Unsere Rollei Pan 25 sind eine selektierte Version der Efke Pan 25.
Die auf Efke basierenden 35mm Filme sind zwischenzeitlich ausverkauft,
von den Rollfilmen 120 sind auch nur noch etwa 6.000 Stück vorrätig.

Gruss
Sebastian


However in some way, Filmotec was also involved in this project. Mr. Sebastian J. seems to be product manager for the Rollei-Maco company.

ath
06-25-2011, 05:50 AM
Indeed, I think Adox Pan 25 AND Rollei Pan 25 (very very close films) are discontinued. In fact, if my sources are sure, these films was emulsions from Filmotec (ORWO).

Maco recently confirmed that Rollei Pan 25 is a "selected" EFKE 25 and that it is discontinued.

http://www.aphog.de/forum/viewtopic.php?p=174139#p174139

georg16nik
06-25-2011, 08:02 AM
Last time I asked Photoimpex about Adox Pan 25, they replied "We have a rest of the ADOX Pan 25/135" That was in february 2011.
Now, I see on their website that Adox Pan 100 is coming - sounds good!

I second the Copex rapid/135! Its excellent :whistling:

ADOX Fotoimpex
07-16-2011, 04:43 AM
PAN 25:
.. is NOT CHS 25. We never sell the same material in two different ADOX-boxes.

PAN 25 can be produced again but minimum production quantities do not justify this step at this point with so many excellent alternative choices beeing on the market.
We are currently confectioning the last master roll in 120 size. There will be a few thousand PAN 25 - 120 films in stock soon.

CMS 20:

The slightly S-shaped curve of CMS 20 was always the disadvantage of this otherwise in any parameter superior film.

I am pleased to announce that with the new ADOTECH II developer beeing only a few days from it´s release this disadvantage will be overcome.
The new version produces a much straighter curve and even less tendency to turbulence clouds in large homogenous areas than ADOTECH I (called only ADOTECH).
The new version is perfect for the new 120 CMS 20 which we have produced in the past weeks and which is already out for sale.

Copex Rapid is a very good film as well but CMS 20 is by far superior in fine grain and detail contrast.

In respect to the obvious disaffirmation which some mainly US based photographers seem to have against a working and perfected imaging system containing a microfilm plus a dedicated developer I can comment that you are ofcourse free in your choice but the results will very probably be inferior.

ADOTECH II is the outcome of 15 years of research with about 25 improvements undertaken each costing many rolls of film and liters of developer and hundreds of hours in the studio and darkroom to tweak it to perfection. The developer is perfected not only to this special film but actually down to the very emulsion. We produce large amounts of raw film, freeze it, formulate ADOTECH II to the actual batch number and sell for a period of about 5 years a constant and working imaging system. After 5 years (which is today after the introduction of the first CMS 20 plus ADOTECH) we work all improvements of the past in the next generation and produce a new batch.

Theoretically one could sit down and do all this work by himself, if he has the knowledge and time available, but to me this makes no sense. Especially in respect to the price of CMS 20 plus ADOTECH II. 5 Rolls plus developer are not more expensive than 5 rolls of Delta 100 plus a regular high quality liquid developer made by another main brand.

Kind regards,

Mirko

georg16nik
07-17-2011, 12:19 PM
Fantastic!!!
Thanks a lot!

mopar_guy
07-17-2011, 12:25 PM
Mirko,

Thank you for the updated information. I can't wait to try some

aengelphoto
07-23-2011, 09:53 PM
This is my first post. Living in the USA where does one purchase the 120 cms 20 and the adotech II?

Gerald C Koch
07-23-2011, 11:09 PM
You might like Ilford Pan-F Plus rated at ISO 25 and developed in D-23. I have never been satisfied with document films and find they are always too contrasty for my taste.

mopar_guy
07-23-2011, 11:38 PM
This is my first post. Living in the USA where does one purchase the 120 cms 20 and the adotech II?

Yikes! Good question. I see that Freesyle carries CMS in 35mm and also lists the Developer. Maybe a inquiry at Freestyle would shed some light on this?

georg16nik
07-24-2011, 09:44 AM
@Gerald C Koch...,
Adox CMS 20 and Ilford Pan f belongs in quite different leagues.
Adox CMS 20 in Adotech or TETENAL Dokumol, or even Rodinal 1:200 is spectacular.
Some of us have been working with Adox CMS 20 for years, used it in various conditions/sets etc etc.
Also, I have been developing Adox CMS 20 with chemistry, dissolved in electro-activated water.. and I have tried other emulsions that way as well, so I pretty much know where I stand and where the currently existing products stand :)
Now, obviously there is a new Adotech developer, adding some new shades to the already awesome package ;)

aengelphoto
07-24-2011, 10:50 AM
I will check with Freestyle on Mon. When I called them several months ago regarding the UR developer, they were happy to special order it with a 6 week wait. My interest in the 120 cms20 is to scale down from ULF, produce the highest quality digital neg, and platinum or carbon print. The attraction of 120 is of course the smaller footprint, decreased susceptibility to wind, and expanded photographing options even if I remain wedded to a tripod and mlu. If I need to order from Europe what are my options for a site in English. Thanks for the help.

aengelphoto
07-24-2011, 11:00 AM
I will also check with digitaltruth.com.

Роберт
07-24-2011, 11:46 AM
In this way the SPUR company (Aachen - Germany) seems to be very active in suitable developers for (Agfa) Copex micro films like CMS20 and ATP1.1

They made the new (Rollei) ATP-DC A1/B (35mm) - A2/B (roll film) for the Rollei-Maco company and this new Adotech II for Adox-Impex. They are selling also their own SPUR Modular UR (new) developer for developing micro films.

http://www.spur-photo.com/

K-G
07-24-2011, 03:17 PM
I will check with Freestyle on Mon. When I called them several months ago regarding the UR developer, they were happy to special order it with a 6 week wait. My interest in the 120 cms20 is to scale down from ULF, produce the highest quality digital neg, and platinum or carbon print. The attraction of 120 is of course the smaller footprint, decreased susceptibility to wind, and expanded photographing options even if I remain wedded to a tripod and mlu. If I need to order from Europe what are my options for a site in English. Thanks for the help.

Fotoimpex in Berlin has CMS 20 in 120 size in their web-shop. Unfortunately their English language support is not complete but if you look at the enclosed link and send them a mail in English, I think they can fix it for you. They are very helpful.
Good luck !

Karl-Gustaf

K-G
07-24-2011, 03:19 PM
I forgot the link. Sorry !

Karl-Gustaf

http://www.fotoimpex.de/shop/filme/mittelformatfilme-120/adox-cms-20-rollfilm-120-first-batch-weisse-aufkleber.html

aengelphoto
07-24-2011, 07:47 PM
Thank you! Perhaps if Mirko is watching this thread, he might comment on whether any US retailers are planning on carrying the 120. And when the Adotech II might be available

K-G
07-25-2011, 02:15 AM
Thank you! Perhaps if Mirko is watching this thread, he might comment on whether any US retailers are planning on carrying the 120. And when the Adotech II might be available

Perhaps you should send him a mail. I have been in contact with him before and he wrote that he can only check the APUG conversation when he has time, but he has been very helpful in answering questions. You can reach him at info@adox.de .

Karl-Gustaf

Roger Cole
07-25-2011, 05:19 AM
@Gerald C Koch...,
Adox CMS 20 and Ilford Pan f belongs in quite different leagues.
Adox CMS 20 in Adotech or TETENAL Dokumol, or even Rodinal 1:200 is spectacular.
Some of us have been working with Adox CMS 20 for years, used it in various conditions/sets etc etc.
Also, I have been developing Adox CMS 20 with chemistry, dissolved in electro-activated water.. and I have tried other emulsions that way as well, so I pretty much know where I stand and where the currently existing products stand :)
Now, obviously there is a new Adotech developer, adding some new shades to the already awesome package ;)


What the heck is "electro-activated water?" :confused:

I'm another who has never much cared for document films and specialty low contrast developers for them for pictorial use, but if you absolutely must have the finest possible grain in 35mm, that's the way to get it. Personally I'd rather just shoot a larger negative to start with. I really don't need finer grain or higher resolving power than I can get out of a conventional slow film or 100 speed T-grain film in 120 negative sizes, but of course YMMV and having choices is a very good thing.

georg16nik
07-26-2011, 09:32 AM
What the heck is "electro-activated water?"
It is produced by the electrolysis of water (tap) or distilled water with some minerals added to it, so you get alkaline and acid fractions or if You prefer hydrogen gas, hydroxide ions et etc.,, vs hypochlorous acid etc etc...

Electro-activated water has been in use by various industries for decades.