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dugrant153
07-27-2011, 12:46 PM
3D cannot make a movie better... much in the same way that you can't polish a turd...

Actually, you CAN polish a turd ;) Just ask Mythbusters:

http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/mythbusters-polishing-a-turd.html

holmburgers
07-27-2011, 12:47 PM
Did no one else appreciate the anti-colonialist sentiment expressed in Avatar? Drivel or not, I got behind that theme.

No one has ever claimed that Hollywood's 3D movies are going to be more thoughful, more moving, more artistic, more enlightening, etc., solely by virtue of a third dimension.

I feel strongly though, that dismissing the vehicle (3D) instead of the passenger (the plot) is a mistake, and that's the case with all this 3D bashing. It seems like there's a strong negative reaction, and a voluntary lashing out that I just don't really see cause for.

I say let's just sit back and see what someone does someday with a 3D film. One of my least favorite things is eating crow!

Color was a novelty too when it came out, but today it's just standard and great movies are filmed in color. I see the same thing happening to 3D someday (if we lose the glasses... this is key).

Steve Smith
07-27-2011, 12:51 PM
So, regardless of impact on the film industry, does 3D make the movies better?

No. Only good stories make movies better.


Steve.

Thomas Bertilsson
07-27-2011, 12:51 PM
Chris, I will keep my opinion to myself. Not even worth arguing about. You like the potential. I don't. I'm moving on.

olleorama
07-27-2011, 12:52 PM
I enjoyed avatar 3d for what it was. It was actually filmed in '3D' (with a lot of cameras at different depths etc), with enormous amounts of work by James Cameron, it took years from what I've read. Getting the timing right down to the single frame and whatnot, I'm glad I don't work in that industry.

Most other '3D' films are, however, filmed in 2D and then sent to Mumbai where all '3D'-esque effects are done in post.

So as most others have said, 3d wont save a bad movie, but done right it might enhance the experience for the viewer. It has done once for me at least (Watching avatar on dvd made me wonder how I could enjoy it the first time), other have been terrible (I left the theater thirty minutes into Burton/Disneys abomination Alice).

holmburgers
07-27-2011, 12:54 PM
Chris, I will keep my opinion to myself. Not even worth arguing about. You like the potential. I don't. I'm moving on.

:(

We're not arguing... I thought we were just having a spirited conversation. Please don't stop expressing your opinion Thomas, it's one of the better ones!

I'm just encouraging everyone to keep an open mind, that's all.

Thomas Bertilsson
07-27-2011, 12:55 PM
:(

We're not arguing... I thought we were just having a spirited conversation.

I'm just encouraging everyone to keep an open mind, that's all.

I know. I'm just tired of the discussion of something I don't even enjoy. :) Smile. It's all good. I just figured out that I have better things to spend my time on.

holmburgers
07-27-2011, 12:57 PM
Good call.... onwards and upwards!

Ken Nadvornick
07-27-2011, 01:13 PM
This short article in the online version of The Economist shows how 3D is losing ground lately:

http://www.economist.com/node/18988914

Yes indeed.

Last June 11th I made this post (http://www.apug.org/forums/forum172/81371-big-blow-film-production-kodak-fuji-29.html#1084812) along the same lines. It contains a link to a different article that drew a similar conclusion. There was some disagreement in the thread, however, as to whether the new found unpopularity of 3D would have any residual upward effect on film sales.

[Edit] The updated link to that earlier article is now here (http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/11/us-jeffreykatzenberg-qa-idUSTRE75A05M20110611).

Ken

Dave in Kansas
07-27-2011, 01:20 PM
I doubt that we ever see the day when everyone will be in agreement that 3D improved movies. After all, does everyone agree that adding color to movies improved them? What about adding sound?

Dave

Diapositivo
07-27-2011, 02:27 PM
I think proper 3D (with glasses) is going to be all the rage in the game industry. Imagine playing a flight simulator such as "Red Baron" or a formula 1 simulator in "proper" 3D. The game would calculate the two different frames exactly, and the user would have a much more realistic experience. Realism, "immersion" in the scene is very important for games.

Cinema is a different beast. Films like "Tora, Tora, Tora" or "The battle of the Midway" would have certainly be much more spectacular with proper 3D effects. Imagine the final "triello" in Il brutto, il buono, il cattivo. More spectacular but, overall, the film would remain the same. I don't know if I would pay more to see the shovel appear "near".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaBz9QKKgr0

Landscape would certainly gain. All the western films having in the landscape an important part of the attraction would certainly be much more pleasant.

But, ultimately, a film is good or bad for other qualities than "realism". We still enjoy B&W films of the past. Just like Fellini 8 wouldn't really gain anything from colour, it would not really gain anything from 3D.

I don't think "glassless 3D" to ever become realistic. It's either two different images for the two different eyes (taken from two different points of view, an inter-pupillar distance apart) or it's not 3D.

holmburgers
07-27-2011, 02:43 PM
Glassless 3D is a very real possibility. We currently have, and have had since the 60's-70's, the ability to do this using fly's eye arrays placed over TV screens. It all goes back to Gabriel Lippmann's integral imaging concept. We could have a glasses-free television set today if the manufacturers and broadcasters saw fit to do so.

Umut, you raise a very interesting point! TV already has an opiate like effect, and one can only imagine when it is even more lifelike. It's like the soma & "light boxes" of A Brave New World. That's why I think the future is gonna be such a wild place to be... my grandkids might be amazed that grandpa used to watch 2D television! (and that Church and state used to be separated... :pouty:)

MDR
07-27-2011, 03:56 PM
but certain countries that promote digital Cinemas like Norway (all 420 screens in Norway are digital http://www.screendaily.com/news/digital/norway-first-country-to-go-fully-digital-with-all-cinemas/5030136.article)and Germany (Cinemas that Change to digital receive a lot of founding). The EU actively promotes the digitalisation of cinema as well. The BBC, National Geographic and NHK no longer accept documentaries shot with Film as it interferes with their Broadcast compression Format (worst quality but cheapest). Indie Filmmaker have discovered the Red or Canon DSLRs a lot cheaper than a pro 35mm Camera (Red around $18 000 new vs Aaton Penelope $ 120 000 new or a decent used sync sound camera e.g. Arri 35bl4 $ 18 000 used ). 90% of the movies made in Hollywood and in Europe use Digital Intermediates instead of classic IP Films. Quiet a few Blockbusters use the Red for FX Shots the classic territory of the VISTAVISION 8 Perf or Mitchell 4 Perf cameras. Another point in digitals favour is the lack of grain and High Speed of the Cameras (the current Hollywood DP Bigwigs favourite Digi Cam. Arri Alexa ASA 800) meaning smaller lightning package. Distribution cost are still lower when using Film, a DI is quiet expensive (around $ 30 000 Film and a 2K DI averages around 60 000 to a 100 000 $) But let's not forget that most movies will never be shown in a cinema but are straight to TV or DVD productions. It's still possible to make a cheap movie using Film ($10 000 Budget shot in 35mm Anamorphic with Russian Cameras and lenses) but they usually lack advertisment dollars and the public will never hear about them. Politicians want to appear modern and Film isn't a sexy new technology that's the reason why Digital screens receive fundings and non digital screens are closing down

Diapositivo
07-27-2011, 04:21 PM
@holmburgers, when I said glassless 3d is IMO not realistic I didn't mean it is infeasible (unrealistic as an industrial product), I meant that is the effect that is not "realistic", there being no good separation between the information reaching the two eyes, the "tridimensionality" is likely to be defective in any glassless technology.

Alan Johnson
07-27-2011, 04:30 PM
India is going digital as well.
http://www.londonindianfilmfestival.co.uk/cgi-bin/template.pl?t=npd&ID=75

SkipA
07-27-2011, 04:51 PM
So far, I haven't seen any 3D projection that didn't give me a headache and turn my stomach.

Alan Johnson
07-27-2011, 05:27 PM
Mustafa,

It looks like Hollywood technology is moving to India:

http://www.digitalcinemareport.com/Bollywood-Rhythm%2526Hues-Technicolor-PostLogic-Nvidia

MDR
07-27-2011, 06:06 PM
cinema projection and the number of purely digital cinemas in China is rising (http://www.filmjournal.com/filmjournal/content_display/columns-and-blogs/european-update/e3i6eec7fec77eb723a708959c9c5246252 and http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118038651?refcatid=13&printerfriendly=true)
India isn't immune to the digital Virus either and has more than 5000 Digital Cinemas (http://www.filmbiz.asia/news/indian-cinema-goes-digital-in-its-own-way)
The Iran believe it or not is one of the strongholds of classic Moviemaking using Film. I wonder if they use Fuji or Kodak Film

Diapositivo
07-27-2011, 06:48 PM
Mustafa,

It looks like Hollywood technology is moving to India:

http://www.digitalcinemareport.com/Bollywood-Rhythm%2526Hues-Technicolor-PostLogic-Nvidia

From what I gather from this article, it is the special-effect-post-processing-animation industry which is gaining ground in Bollywood, the Hollywood-style production side of the industry. No mention of the projection side, the cinema theatres, converting to digital India - and I hope they remain analogue forever.

Steve Roberts
07-28-2011, 06:24 AM
As most Hollywood produced films seem to require multiple car chases and explosions, 3D seems ideal. For movies made outside of Hollywood which rely on actual stories, I don't see any benefit.

I think 3D for movies is the equivalent of quadrophonic sound for hi-fi.


Steve.


What he said!
The films I've enjoyed the most I have done so because of the story, not effects, 3D, surround sound or even colour!

Steve