View Full Version : Cirkut negative storage question

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hired goon
11-06-2011, 08:20 AM
Hi all-
I've recently gotten my #10 cirkut camera up and running, and have suddenly fallen hard for this thing and what it can do. I've got a few negatives that are rather long - about 6+ feet, and can easily anticipate the desire to produce even longer ones. Those of you out there using these cameras, what do you do about negative storage? Do you lie them flat in a specially built storage cabinet of similar length, spool/roll them up (I'm assuming not), or maybe hang them in a closet? Right now, I'm hanging mine in a spare closet, and could go as long as 10' using that system, but am looking for better ideas if possible. Can anyone share what storage system they use?


Mark Crabtree
11-06-2011, 08:45 AM
It's great to hear someone still jumping with with the Cirkut. I've made my living with one for quite a long while. They are great fun, and I was thinking last night about how much I enjoyed figuring them out and getting them to work well.

The Cirkut shooters I know keep their negatives in the original Kodak boxes. Until the 50's or so (maybe later - all well before my time) the film came in a metal can inside the box. When I find old Cirkut negs they are almost always in the box or can. The cans seem to have provided some extra protection, but the problem with all these is obvious - the negatives set up into a strong curl over time. For 5-10 year storage I wouldn't worry about that. Long term it does lead to problems (some of my older negatives are hard to flatten for printing). I also realize you may be loading from bulk and not have boxes (a problem I had with b&w). I also don't know what kind of film you are shooting.

Shelves would be ideal. That's how I store my prints. But retrieving negatives would be a chore. Hanging sounds fine as long as you have space for it. They'll get dusty and be getting a lot more air transfer over the emulsion, but I doubt it will really be an issue for you.

I use 1.75" tubes for shipping prints, and sometimes use those for storeage. They are not acid free, but a sheet of acid free paper could isolate the negative from the tube if you are concerned. This last may really be the most practical solution.

hired goon
11-07-2011, 07:15 AM
Thanks for your help, Mark!
Exactly, getting the cameras themselves to work is half the intrigue, and luckily for me, that is indeed part of their appeal. Plus, I just love putting old stuff back into service, so on many levels, it's become addicting.

I'm using Ilford HP5+ that comes on a 100' foot roll, so I don't have any individual cans/boxes I can use, and just like you mention, I was worried about curling over time if I stored them in some acquired tubes. But, I think it might not only buy me some time, but possibly work out well, especially for the longest ones.

Oh yes, dust is my concern with the hanging system I'm now using. It seems to be working for the short term, so I'm gonna give this more thought, and come up with a mixed solution depending on the neg length. I can build a storage cabinet for ones of moderate length, which most of them are, so for the bulk of them, should work out well.

Thanks so much for you thoughts/help - much appreciated!


Mark Crabtree
11-07-2011, 01:26 PM
I think the ultimate best storage would be a cabinet with panoramic width drawers (libraries have them). But completely impractical for me.

What HP5 film are you using?? Is this 9.5" aerial? If so, that polyester type base is unlikely to take a curl and I'd lean toward rolling them up (well that's what I do anyway). If you've got 10" HP5 on acetate base, then I'm jealous.

Let me know if there is any help I can give. I have lots of gears and assorted Cirkut stuff.


jamie young
11-07-2011, 01:39 PM
I'm guessing it's the hp5 that ilford cut about a year ago on special order at 8". They also cut some 5" last year.
On Negs, I've been mostly placing them in archival tissue, then wrapping them in very loose rolls (6-12" diameter) and keeping them in plastic bins

Mark Crabtree
11-07-2011, 02:40 PM
I'm guessing it's the hp5 that ilford cut about a year ago on special order at 8". They also cut some 5" last year.
On Negs, I've been mostly placing them in archival tissue, then wrapping them in very loose rolls (6-12" diameter) and keeping them in plastic bins

Hi Jamie,

Sorry I didn't hear about that, though I'd want 10" anyway. Acetate base I assume?

I do know someone who is desperate for some 8" black and white. If you happen to know any of this available, I'd be happy to put him in touch.

hired goon
11-07-2011, 06:26 PM
Ahhh, hadn't thought about a loose roll - thanks Jamie.

Mark - Yep, Jamie is right, the HP5 I'm using is the 8" stuff Ilford cuts once a year. I too wasn't really interested in 8", but 5" and 8" is all they had available for ordering this year. I did put in a request for 10" wide rolls next year, so I'm hopeful I can get that, (especially if others request it too), otherwise I'm thinking of getting their 20"x50' HP5 roll, and cutting it down, (I'd prefer not do that, but...)

You mentioned gears - I might need a set to use with a 300mm Symmar-S in the future. Not sure how many teeth I'd need off hand. I'd have to do some calculations, but that's something I'm looking into.

Thanks guys!

jamie young
11-07-2011, 07:19 PM
Mark - the film was cut on 120 thickness stock as cirkut film should be. Ilford is willing, as far as I've heard, to cut any size you want on their special order run. Tony- the person you want to talk to for gears is Ron Klein. He's in Alaska. Great cirkut shooter, and an excellent machinist

Mark Crabtree
11-07-2011, 08:16 PM
I'll second the recommendation of Ron. He's made quite a few gears for me and has been a great source of inspiration and ideas too. We started down this path at right about the same time and met around 1984, then not again in person until a few years ago.

hired goon
11-08-2011, 07:01 AM
Very cool, thanks!

The way I was told the Ilford special order ULF run works is that you can order only whatever is on their list for that year. For 2011, only 8" and 20" HP5 rolls were available for ordering. They also had 5" FP4 rolls, but not in HP5. I wanted 10", but couldn't get it because it wasn't on the list. Perhaps I was misinformed by that dealer? I tried calling Ilford directly for 2 weeks, months before the deadline for clarificatiion, left messages, and got no return call. That is why I have put in a request through that dealer to have 10" on the list for 2012. I'm uncertain exactly when the list comes out, but the cut-off date is in June....meaning they circulate the list months in advance of that date, so I wanted to get my request in as early as possible.

My sense is they will cut any size you'd like, but perhaps didn't know there was any desire for 10", so it hasn't yet made it onto their selection list. If anyone else would like it, please let them know to include it, so we can keep these old girls running!


jamie young
11-08-2011, 08:24 AM
Check with fred Newman at the view camera store, and also Simon from ilford on the process. I heard they changed the process so you can request any size, but you have to do it before the list is finalized for the the season.It was mentioned recently somewhere on apug. I presently have a bunch of5" aerial, 8" original cirkut film, 9.5" aerial, and even 16" rolls so I'm good for now. I've been messing with a few 7" al vista cameras and would love to get some 7" thin base film, but don't want to spend money right now.

jamie young
11-08-2011, 08:32 AM
more details on the ilford run are here
or go over to the apug product availability section

Mark Crabtree
11-08-2011, 09:02 AM
Thanks for the info. I apologize for sidetracking this thread, though I think we pretty well covered the original topic.

I'm fairly well set for film myself also, but wouldn't mind having some 10". Some other folks have been asking about Cirkut film and I had just emailed Simon Galley when this came up here.

One long time pro is looking for 8" black and white. I sold him 10 of my last 20 rolls of the Kodak Verichrome a few years ago and I think he was getting something else until recently. I want to keep a few rolls of the Verichrome for myself, but I'd love to help him out, so will look into all the options.

11-08-2011, 03:10 PM
Hello Mark,

I have some HP5+ 8"x100' expires Sep. 2013 in the freezer. It was from the group order though Fred Newman in 2009. Also, some ADOX R100 Cirkut Film - 10 inch and JandC Classic 400 - 8 inch, but I am not sure how many 100' rolls. I may be willing to sell some, but I am in Canada, so the shipping will be a bit more than in the US. As an aside, who prefers FP4+ or HP5+?


Mark Crabtree
11-08-2011, 04:15 PM
Clarence, I'll PM.

hired goon
11-09-2011, 07:38 AM
Jamie - Yes indeed, that is my understanding as well. I'd received my info from Fred, and I put my request for 10" rolls through him for next year. Hopefully they'll be available. I'll follow up, and will be ordering a few rolls if they make it on the list.


hired goon
11-09-2011, 07:59 AM
I've not used HP4 for anything, but am a big fan of Delta 100. Selfishly, I think it'd be great to have that as an option. Actually, I was initially pretty surprised that this 8" roll film they offered was so fast. It works beautifully, but I wasn't expecting something as fast as HP5. As an aside, historically speaking, does anyone know what film speed was originally used with these cameras when new? I'm sure it wasn't 400.


jamie young
11-09-2011, 08:35 AM
Probably 50-200
Verichrome pan was the last film produced @ 125, and was a great film for the cirkut. They were also cutting tri x as well, but that got discontinued before I got into it. Super XX was cut for cirkut for years, but I believe it was a slower different emulsion back then. I have a old roll or two in the basement, and will look at some point. Agfa also spooled cirkut film at one point

jamie young
11-09-2011, 09:14 AM
I looked at the film boxes I have and no speeds are given, but according to info on the internet the original verichrome ortho film was around 50-80 asa, and it was faster than the Kodak NC non curling film, maybe around 25 asa (?)

11-09-2011, 09:22 AM
Im curious.
Can I sidetrack this for a second and ask you guys how you print these and in what formats?