Dimezone-S= No shipping by mail or outside the USA,UPS ground only (Photoformulary).
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Dimezone-S= No shipping by mail or outside the USA,UPS ground only (Photoformulary).
If you are located in Europe, Fototechnik Suvatlar sells it ... all hope is not lost if PF doesn't ship.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Johnson
FIXED: THEY WILL NOW SHIP IT EVERYWHERE.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Johnson
I emailed Photoformulary and they fixed this mistake. Check their website now, and you'll see no shipping-restriction on Dimezone S. Emails are below.
Mark Overton
-------------- Emails -------------------
Hi Mark
I have updated the Dimezone S. All should be better now.
Sherry
----- Original Message -----
From: Overton, Mark
To: sherry@photoformulary.com
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 1:12 PM
Subject: Wrong MSDS for Dimezone-S, plus shipping-restriction mistake
Hi Sherry (or whomever),
1. The MSDS on your web site for Dimezone S is for some moderately dangerous liquid, and not for Dimezone S which is a powder.
2. Shipping for Dimezone S is USA-only UPS-Ground-only. That’s also probably a mistake based on the MSDS above. Dimezone S is a powder of low toxicity.
Some folks in Europe would like to buy Dimezone S from you, but they can’t because of the shipping restriction. Correcting these errors would boost your sales of Dimezone S.
Thanks,
Mark Overton
Good news: It’s been three weeks, and there is still no evidence of crystallization in the Dimezone-version of Trial-130119. In the past, I’ve always seen crystallization start within a week or two, so it’s probably stable.
Crystallization seems to be a function of the alkalinity of the concentrate, and that’s controlled by the ratio of sodium metaborate (SM) to ascorbic acid (AA). D316’s SM/AA-ratio is 2.2/4.5 = 0.489. Trial-130119’s ratio is 1.5/3.5 = 0.429. I’ve noticed a white smudge on the bottom of the beaker when mixing D316 at temperatures over 80C. That’s the beginning of crystallization, so D316 is on the border. I believe Trial-130119 backs off some from that border, which is enough to allow the use of Dimezone S.
I think I’ll abandon Phenidone and use Dimezone S instead. Here’s why:
1. Dimezone S is obtainable everywhere for a reasonable price. PhotoFormulary.com now ships it world-wide. So does Fototechnik Suvatlar, and thanks to Rudeofus for pointing that out.
2. Dimezone S gives a sharper toe with some films. Delta 400 in particular has a significantly softer toe with Phenidone, unless the AA is reduced so the AA/Phenidone ratio is about 70. Dimezone S maintains the sharper toe in the presence of more AA.
3. Dimezone S gives normal fog when used in glycol-based concentrates. For Delta 400, Phenidone raises fog as much as 0.10. For most films, Phenidone’s glycol-induced fog-rise is around .07-.08, but it’s as low as .02 for a few films such as Tri-X and Tmax-400.
4. Dimezone S stores better.
5. Dimezone S’s image-quality is at least as good as Phenidone.
6. It looks like the crystallization problem with Dimezone S has been solved.
I can see no reason to use Phenidone. Do you?
Mark Overton
Do you have any info on the effect of Dimezone-S on low speed films as was reported for DS-10?
http://web.archive.org/web/200801160...rain_developer
I wonder if that reported effect was due to Dimezone-S or whether it would have occurred with phenidone also.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Johnson
Alan and John: That's an interesting question. XTOL does fine, and it uses Dimezone-S. But its pH is 8.20. The pH of DS-10 is 8.00, which those slow films might not have appreciated. Based on your postings, I'll start with slow films when I do roll-tests again. The concentrate I'm experimenting with below has a pH of 8.08:Quote:
Originally Posted by john_s
Propylene Glycol ..................... 12.2 g (grams, not ml)
Sodium Metaborate 4 mol ...... 1.8 g
Ascorbic Acid .......................... 4.2 g
Dimezone-S ............................ 0.09 g
A litre of developer contains 18 g of concentrate and 45 g of sodium sulfite with pH = 8.08.
I’ll call this “212D”. 212 is the mixing-date and the “D” means Dimezone. The amount Dimezone-S will change a little to adjust dev-times to be close to D316. My first test-strip (Tri-X) had higher than expected density. There's always a surprise in this business. The SM/AA ratio is 0.429, the same as Trial-130119, so it’s the same concentrate with less Dimezone; you simply use more of it. The composition of this is similar to D316 and its pH is the same, so the testing and times for D316 should also apply to 212D.
Mark Overton
I think too muuch is being made of the fact that DS-10 is not suitable for slow films. It was optimized for medium and fast speed films and therefore one should not expect the best results with slow films. Like most things in photography there are always tradeoffs to be made.
I have now completed this 12 month keeping test in which ~20ml D-316 concentrate in a 200ml bottle was exposed to air for ~30 min about once a month (1 year sample).
(1) HP5+ was developed in different quite fresh 2 months old D-316 for 2 x Xtol 1+0 time.
(2) HP5+ was developed in the above mentioned 1 year sample of D-316 for 2 x Xtol 1+0 time.
There is little difference between the negatives from (1) and (2) except there is a slight loss of density in the negs from (2), the 1 year sample.
Considering that this is a rather extreme test using only a small quantity of D-316 in relation to the size of the bottle, which was opened many times, and it is unlikely anyone would repeat these extremes in practice, IMO this is a satisfactory result.I believe Mark is running a keeping test which I hope would more closely represent conditions of practical use,and there may be results to come from this later.
Regarding the chemistry of deterioration of D-316,
Ascorbate oxidation is probably the cause of the slight loss in density.
Ascorbate hydrolysis is in my experience negligible, I once had a 50g/L solution of sodium ascorbate in a full sealed glass bottle that was still active after 5 years.
Phenidone oxidation probably only occurs after all the ascorbate is oxidized.
Phenidone hydrolysis is pretty slow, I once had a full sealed bottle of Mytol that took over 3 years to lose activity.
It can be seen that in the 1 year sample the concentrate has gone orange, I suspect this comes from ascorbate oxidation and will run a test using sodium ascorbate solution with nothing else to see if this can be reproduced.
Alan, thanks again for doing this 1-year test. Frankly, I'm surprised it did that well considering how orange it's become. I guess it's more robust than I thought. Even yellowing was making me concerned, but orange? My current formula is similar to D-316, so your results should apply to it. If a bottle were half-full on average, and opened for only 5 minutes when used, and kept refrigerated or frozen, I'd say it would last a few years.
Also, unlike XTOL which dies clear, the concentrate's colour tells us its state. Clear or yellow is okay. Orange means develop a little longer. Red probably means it's too far gone. Nice to know *before* developing film...
Mark Overton