Dektol is a paper developer which has no concern for image quality. D75 and other film developers are designed for film quality Oh dear, I guess you younger guys do not distinguish between film and paper developers.
Photo Engineer. Thank-you for your previous comment about D94a. You confirmed the growing opinion that D76 would make no substitute for D94a despite a claim I read elsewhere that said it could.
Originally Posted by Photo Engineer
With regards Dektol and the use of paper developers for film reversal developing amongst the younger generation. Look at The Darkroom Cookbook and the 2003 Ilford Application Sheet on reversal processing.
The Darkroom Cookbook which was first published in 1994 by Focal, so not exactly a baby on the subject. In the section on reversal processing in the 3rd ed. it states that 'The first stage is known as primary development. In this stage, the exposed film is developed using an energetic developer to ensure that every exposed grain in the emulsion is developed.'. An energetic developer. I believe that paper developers fit that bill.
Then in the 2003 Ilford Application Sheet on Reversal Processing it suggests using either Ilford Bromophen 1+1 or Ilford PQ Universal at 1+5. Ilford Bromophen is a paper developer and Ilford PQ Universal is a paper and film developer.
Also, the first time I reverse processed Super 8 Tri-X was in the 80s. The Tetenal Kit I used specified the use of paper developer.
If you have used other (film) developers for b&w reversal processing (especially Tri-X), I'd love to hear about them and how they worked out!
Thank-you for showing us the scans. They look fantastic even in that form. I'd be happy to get a bit of that quality in a Super 8 reversal film which is where I'm heading with my experiments on 35mm.
Originally Posted by mrred
If your dev uses Sodium thiocyanate, then you should not use a permanganate based bleach. They are not compatible* and this has been discussed elsewhere (possibly on this forum). It is also mentioned in the Kodak 2000 document 'Processing KODAK Motion Picture Films, Module 15 Processing Black-and-White Films'. Bleach R-10 (Potassium permanganate) should not be used with developer D94 (which has Sodium thiocyanate). D94a type dev (which is safe with permanganate) uses DTOD instead of the thiocyanate. See section 15-25 and 15-26 of the document. I know in theory that after washing there is no developer left on the film but not mixing the two substances in the reversal process is the recommendation.
Originally Posted by mrred
I do not want to use a dichromate based bleach (and it is not even available in the UK) therefore I need to think about what is in the dev. The use or non-use of the dichromate has already caused enough heated debate, so let's not pursue that one, please.
*I have read a description of the chemical reaction between the two but cannot find it at this moment.
In researching my reply to mrred, I also found this
It says that he uses D19 as a substitute for D94!
'Research told me that D-19 with Sodium Thiocyanate added (2g to 1 litre of Dev) was closer to Kodak's D-94 Reversal Process.'
I stand corrected on the bleach. Opps.
I used a batch of D19. At the time it was besting other developers, but it seemed to favour TMY or TMX and not the films I was using. I had perfect results from dektol (contrary to Mr PE's opinion). As a bonus, it is a fraction of the cost.
It should give you exactly the same look as the Super-8 reversals. It is the same process.
mrred. I'm excited by what I saw in your dektol processed slides. I will certainly investigate it as an option and the description of your process on the blog should be a great help to anyone who considers that route...
Originally Posted by mrred
In my previous post D75 should read D76.
Now, as for Dektol. It is used as a film developer when one is not overly concerned with grain. This mainly applies to processing film negatives. And, this use started with the newspaper industry when they found that Dektol with Super XX film using a 1:3 dilution for 3' or a 1:7 dilution for 7' gave negatives that could be printed in newspapers with good detail even though the original was rather poor. The printing process kind of decreased grain and de-emphasized sharpness.
So, amateurs today, seeing that practice, latched on to it, as it is a quick and easy (dirty) way to use 1 developer to get a film negative and prints as well.
So, yes it can be done but the highest quality is not gained.
Now, for reversal the situation is different in that the final grain is determined by the second developer. Sharpness is divided up between the two developers and so it can be a wash here for Dektol as first developer.
I always say, "use what works for you". In this case, without a side by side comparison, Dektol appears to (and does) work but may not be the best solution.
David Vestal and Al Weber both teach this method in their workshops with the same cautionary notes that I have made here. I trust them both implicitly.
I mix a varient of D94a. I mix in everything but for DTOD. I have not had any issues with my soup when processing Foma, Shanghai GP3, ORWO UN54 or Kodak Vision 2/3 all as B&W reversal. I have not used my D94a (-DTOD) to process 7266 yet.
I have since moved on to Kodak D19. It is much easier to tear open a premix packet of powder when being lazy.
Also could I suggest that you give the sodium thiosulphate a miss. I do, and again I have done so since finding I cannot spot a difference between a 1st developer with sodium thiosulphate and a 1st developer without it. If you try without sodium thiosulphate and are happy with the results then run with it, if not then don't.
I also stay away from Permanganate Bleach because I have not had good experiences with it. Maybe I was doing something wrong... Dichromate Bleach has become my bleach of choice and proven to be reliable with all films I have used to date.
I have been in the field of photography for over 60 years. That photo was my retirement photo from EK in 1997. I do not take a photo of me every year or so to update it, but the DVDs show mi in 1998, or 11 years later. Howzzat?
So Since I started photography at 8, and color at 12, you probably are an older guy!!! I was probably taking air to air photos in SEA when you were crapping in diapers. Anyhow, if I was wrong, apologies. If you wish to correct me, please do so. So, at the time of that photo I had had over 30 years experience. How about you?