cost is always a factor for me
i don't buy anything unless i know how much it will cost
and i already know that a beautifully crafted book is going to cost an arm and a leg
compared to a POD book ... you get what you pay for.
i have nothing against a beautiful well crafted book i appreciate the work and effort
that goes into creating one ... i do bookbinding, and have made
about 2 dozen hand crafted hard cover books myself, hand stitched, with images tipped in by me.
as i have said a few times already in this thread lodima press makes beautiful books,
and i have every confidence that their apug commemorative book
will be ever bit as beautiful as the rest of the books in their catalog,
but that said, there needs to be an alternative for people who don't want,
for whatever reasons they have, an expensive book ...
My guess is that if enough people respond the offset book will cost less per copy than a POD book. If not enough people respond to make that possible and if the book were necessarily going to be an expensive one then of course I wouldn't do it.
As Joel said, why worry about the cost until we have cost figures. In the meantime, do go forward with other alternatives, if someone has the energy and time to do that in a serious way.
Michael A. Smith
Let me just preface this by saying that I have absolutely no experience or expertise in book making, but wanted to add my two cents because I feel the tension growing in the thread and am going through this exact thing at work right now. I think we all need to take a step back and take a deep breath.
We have a handful of great ideas, a few people willing to participate, a bucket full of opinions, a task list as long as my leg and no one really steering the boat yet. From what I can see/read, there are all the components we need to make a book a successful venture with the people we have right here in this community. I love the passion to get this venture underway and get things done and I agree that things need to keep being pushed ahead. But, they need to be allowed to develop before forging ahead to the presses. It is too complicated with so many people/opinions involved to not allow the process to grow properly.
That being said, I would propose we redefine the direction of this thread (or create a new one) to generate ideas for the book (composition, layout, etc), resources for the book (those with expertise willing to help, those without expertise willing to help, etc.), rules for submissions, etc. It needs to be clearly understood the intent of the thread is NOT to question if the book is a good idea (the implication is that we are moving ahead) but to gather opinions on what will make it a product worth producing. Any comments not in that train of thought should be deleted. Then impose a deadline and allow the thread to runs its course (two weeks?).
After the deadline, compile the information and move ahead to the next step (maybe one of the items is to elect a small steering committee?).
I would love to see this move ahead. I will contribute what I can to the process and hopefully content, so I hope that if any feelings have been hurt or noses put out of joint they can be mended and not keep anyone from participating.
Again, just my 2 cents (plus GST for us Canadians).
Bottom line with me is that I'm interested in an APUG book. I like what Michael Smith has to say/offer, and, I'm willing to pay up to $100 for a good quality book....even if I don't make the cut (Ha! As if...). There's a ton of talent in this group (understatement) and, although I do own a few wonderful prints from various APUG'rs, I would love to see more images on something other than my stinkin' computer monitor on an annual, every-other-year, 5-year(?) basis.
As far as how the project gets organized, I'll let the smart people handle that one. :)
It will be thirteen months until APUG's tenth anniversary.
More than enough time to work out the details of the finished product.
I certainly wouldn't mind paying $100.00 for The APUG Book, but at this
moment that's not possible. I'm sure there could be a type of Pre-Payment
Plan established that could bill a Debit, or Credit, or PayPal account for four
recurring payments ... I'm only assuming this is possible, but I'm only a Plumber,
no knowledge whatsoever of how books, and billing can be arranged.
Establish a date for the first required payment, that should determine if we
are ready to put our money, where our mouths are, or should be located.
And Robert Is Your Mothers Brother !
Once again: if enough APUgers want to buy the book, the cost will come down. I am hoping it could come down to $25. The $100 for those selected is just a concept. If 1,000 APUgers want to buy the book (and that would be absolutely ideal), it might be able to be sold for $15. And those whose work is slected might have to pay only $50 or $25. It all depends on the number of APUGers who are willing to buy the book.
There will be no profit in this. All money will go toward book production. The more folks involved, the less per person.
The only question is how to raise the money. By sales of the book is the best way. If 2,000 APUG members want to buy it those whose photographs are selected may have to pay no more than anyone else.
he numbers I threw out at first was a concept. Those are not real numbers that would be charged to anyone. I hope that is clear to everyone.
Joel said to send him prints. That is really a mistake. At this time better to send low-res jpgs (unless you do not have scans) by email. No cost involved in that.
I am willing to look at all work submitted and make selections at no cost to anyone.
Thirteen months is not a long time to put a book like this together. It is, in fact, a minimal time. Deadline for submissions should be September 30. Those who want someone else to do it: Get going NOW, or it will not happen.
Michael A. Smith
Joel, thank you for having the strength to keep this going by kicking some butts when necessary. Micheal, thank you for all your help. Just for my self, I would rather pay 40-50$ for a high-quality book than pay 20-25$ for a POD book. Count me in for one book. I may even be forced to subscribe, enter a print, be selected and purchase more copies.
I think this is a key question. A high end book as mentioned above surely will be nice, but nobody outside APUG will care about it.
Originally Posted by Diapositivo
OTOH a (year-?)book of photos, maybe outcome of an annually contest, published as POD and easily buy-able will show what APUG is about: analog photos, in this case taken by members of APUG, juried by members of APUG. An APUG book, not just a book with photos of people who happen to hang out on APUG.
There's something fundementally wrong with this whole idea at the moment, there's almost no support, particularly from the most active particitans of this forum.
It's not that it's a bad idea far from it, rather that the approach and manner so far has been disrespectful, and seems to be a personal project to be thrust upon us regardless of others comments or suggestions.
Quite frankly many of the more prolific posters (images as well) many of whom already exhibit or are published widely just wouldn't bother if it's a juried publication, that's from actual private discussions over the past 2-3 days.
My own view is that at the moment this particular project is on extremely shaky ground, it's ill concieved and has had no proper thought. I doubt as it stands I'd support it.
Don't take that as being against Michael Smith's offers for the publishing that's got to be a good possibility, however I would be vehemently against his having any part in selecting images.
OK, so it appears I might not get the whole political undertones of the previous post, but I have to agree about the support from others. Maybe they will all come out of the woodwork once something more firm is proposed....who knows.
But, I do think there needs to be a reality check here as well. While there are 51k members, how many of these have actually been active over the last 3 months? How many of these would buy the book? I think you would be struggling to sell 500 books, let alone 1000 or 2000, so the price will reflect this. As for POD (and based on Blurb), I would say you won't get away with a book for less then $50