hey--looks like them edwal toners are real toners after all--suitable for film (they say for movie film)....I checked the msds for the blue toner and it has silver reacting chemicals in there, so it's working on the silver--which is what we want---so I'm a gonna try them out....hopefully soon...
no success yet with edwal toners--they are obviously not powerful enough in their bleaching action to get to the heavy silver content of the film (reversal tri-x)...
hell I took some regular tri x--no fix no reversal at all..just developed to black...the bleach doesn't seem to do anything to it....must use STRONGER bleaching then....looks like best is 2 step--bleach to silver ferrocyanide then dye that....the problem is bleaching...they show that you should put acetic acid for the bleachign--tried that with vinegar and it doesn't seem to help (edwal suggest adding acetic to speed up the process)...this stuff is too weak---I want tone to completion, so I need the quickest acting and most uncontrollable dye toning process there is...all the formulae for paper seem to be way too weak and designed to be slow so you can watch it and get it before it goes too far...I WANT it to go too far....back to the sink...
Friedman's book gives several pages of toner formulas for making color images.
Originally Posted by johnielvis
When you say you're going to make a stronger bleach... do NOT use any kind of strong acid with ferrocyanide, or ferricyanide for that matter, or Elvis will be leaving the building.
well--the stronger bleaches really "reduced " my image--so that's not the answer either--so what probably needs to happen is to put it in the toner...take it out and rinse away the stuff in the highlights...the put it back in AGAIN...and keep building it up...I've seen mention of this "build it up" procedure--so this must be necessary.
i''m ordering the formulary straight direct toners anyways just to see what they can do...
If I may humbly opine, this is getting away from Capstaff Kodachrome... just a hair.
I think the defining attribute of the process is the use of dyes having the appropriate color. That's what's responsible for the look.
By messing with toners you certainly might get something, and I think it's worth pursuing, but it's going to be a fundamentally different process and will probably look quite a bit different.
Let us have a look at your colors once you figure this out.
no you misunderstand--I'm after simple color portraits--this capstaff method showed that it's possible with 2 colors..3 colors you can't put together--synthize--without a mirror of some kind..the 2 you can just put 2 sheets together--simple--and a 2 color camera is mucho simpler than a 3 color.
so I'm only trying to get a 2 color system working--I doubt anyone would be able to replicate capstaff--who know WHAT he used exactly--no point in trying to guess...best to guess at something similar with the materials that you have at hand.
and any 2 color can work--and maybe bETTER than capstaff's choice--first thing is to see what you can work with--so I gotta find what red and green I get...THEN you figure out the exposure and filtration for the balance and that's it...that's the easy part--the hard part is getting a repeatable color toning process...get that and the rest is just matching and fine tuning.
so the first thing is to see what can be toned...so that's what I'm a doing...
lemme tell you....it AINT easy.....but when I get it, then it's done for good...
I understand, but the thread is called Capstaff's Two-Colour Kodachrome Process.
However, I'm not trying to be a pedant; figuring out a new and novel process is awesome. I just think we should create threads that suit the discussion. All this talk of toning in the Capstaff thread just doesn't compute somehow, and I think it's misleading if someone were to jump in on it. Not to mention, your work on color toning is now buried where others might not be able to find it if they're looking for it.
Threads can go awry, that's all I'm saying I guess. Sorry for being curmudgeonly...
Now, as for your comment, "who know WHAT he used exactly--no point in trying to guess...". Well, I guess that would be one goal of this thread.
I guess it's all in how you define the process....hell--I think any 2 color direct positive is "capstaff"..you want the eXACT colors...I just define it more broadly. the plates used aren't availabel either, so it's like totally p0intless to define capstaff in terms of the original materials being exactly alike. anyways...while waiting for the formulary toners I'm thinking that the dmax that looks good in black and white is way too much for color--particulary if TWO will be sandwiched together....so bleaching is in order to reduce the dmax to something more managable (and tonable). Or a thinner emulsion must be used---like hologram plates---I'm REALLY going to have to buy some to experiment in a regular camera with regular developers now...the hologram FILMS that is...see how fast they can perform...