Pre-Dagor Dagors?

[vet173]

I have a Berlin Dogmar. Is it indicative of wht I can expect out of it? John

[Ole]

The Dogmar is a very different lens, even if that too is an anastigmat.

It's been said that the "Berlin Dagors" (note: Not the same as the C P Goerz Berlin Dagor!) were inferior, being hastily assembled from unmatched optics to get them on the market quick. I don't know if that's true or not.

[Struan Gray]

I'm pretty sure Dogmars are dialytes, so you can think of them as early Artars. Uncoated, with eight glass-air surfaces, I'd expect a fair bit of flare and ghosting. Small-ish image circle too. That said, they were not budget lenses, and dialytes in general can be very sharp.

The whole 'Berlin' thing looks confused but isn't really. Goerz were based in Berlin, and their lenses were marked "C.P. Goerz Berlin". They had a US subsidiary whose lenses were not marked 'Berlin' at all, but instead were labelled "C.P.Goerz Am.Opt.Co.". Then there were a bunch of lenses marked "Berlin Dagor" assembled by Burke and James in the USA from crates of lens elements carted off post WWII as war booty. These last ones are the ones that often turn out to be dogs. The first ones are, confusingly, often referred to as "Berlin Dagors".

[df cardwell]

Dogmars are remarkably fine lenses. Extremely fine.

[vet173]

Glad to hear that. Thanks John B

[phfitz]

Hi there,

C.P. Goerz Berlin was absorbed in the Zeiss/Ikon mergers in the 1920's. They tried selling Zeiss/Goerz Dagors for about 1 year but the brand loyalties clashed and they didn't sell well. Goerz Am. Opt. was started before wwI like Voightlander New York.

"Then there were a bunch of lenses marked "Berlin Dagor" assembled by Burke and James in the USA from crates of lens elements carted off post WWII as war booty."

Burke & James bought the old stock before wwII and were assembled in the U.S. but they did not flood the market with them and sold them for years. At least they didn't label them "Carl Meyer'.

Schneider made some Dagors and some were built in Switzerland AND there was a third 'Goerz' company in U.S.A..

The original Artars were called 'Celor', like Hurrell used for his portraits.

Lynn Jones did a series of articles in "View Camera" magazine years ago that covered most of the history, sorry but I don't remember which issues.

Curiouser and curiouser

[Ole]

In my German photography book from 1910, the following Goerz lenses are mentioned:

Porträt-Celor, f:3.5, in 15, 24 and 36cm.
Porträt-Celor, f:4.5, in 36, 42, 48 and 60cm.
Celor Serie Ib, f:4.5-5.5, in 12, 15, 18, 21, 24, 27, 30, 36, 42 and 48cm.
Celor Serie Ic, f:6.3, in 9, 12, 15, 18, 21, 24 and 27cm.
Syntor Serie Id, f:6.8, in 12, 15, 18, 21cm.
Doppelanastigmat Dagor Serie III, f:6.8-7.7, in 9, 12, 15, 18, 21, 24, 27, 30, 36, 42, 48 and 60cm.

Pantar (Convertible/casket sets) Individual cells in 15, 18, 24, 30, 36, 42, 48cm. Max aperture f:6.3 with two equal cells, decreasing to f:9 depending on the combination.

Lynkeioskope Serie C, f:6.3, in 9, 12, 15, 18, 21, 24, 27, 30, 36, 48, 60, 75, 90cm. This is listed as a "Porträt-Aplanat".
Lynkeioskop Serie E, f:7.7, in 9, 12, 15, 18, 21, 24, 27, 30cm (Universal-Aplanat)
Weitwinkel-Lynkeioskop Serie F, f:15, in 6, 9, 12, 15, 18, 21, 24cm (Wide angle aplanat)

Hypergon Serie X, f:22, in 6, 7.5, 9, 12, 15, 20cm. 135° image field with rotating star "aperture", 110° without.

Artar f:9-12.5, in 30, 36, 42, 48, 60, 75, 90cm.
Alethar Serie V, f:11, in 30, 36, 42, 48, 60, 75, 90, 120cm. These last two are repro lenses.

[Struan Gray]

phfitz: mea culpa. Thanks for the correction.

Ole: could you just type in the rest of the book when you have the time? Ta very much.

[Ole]

Ole: could you just type in the rest of the book when you have the time? Ta very much.

Might do, but then I'd do it in German!

[Struan Gray]

Keine problem: gibt's gas.

One way to wile away those long lonely hours on the rig....