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  1. #11

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    We know that both sides comitted attrocities; war is ugly no matter which side you're on. The attrocities committed by the Axis just happened to overshadow ours, not to mention that we won so we got to write the history books! Talk to some folks who have recently seen active service in the armed forces; if they trust you they'll tell you some pretty chilling stories about what some people on our side have done in the recent past. You need look no further than Guantanamo Bay.

  2. #12
    Stephen Frizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tim_walls View Post
    Stephen, I think there is a certain amount of confusion here because your two posts seem to disagree about what the films are of.

    Your original post said

    whereas now you say


    So I think what some people are curious to know is - which is it?

    Do the films record the atrocities being committed as the original post said ('having' their brains blown out, not 'who have had', and 'being gutted' rather than 'who have been gutted' being pretty clear statements that the film records the acts in progress,) or are they recordings of the aftermath as you say in this thread?

    Ignoring morbid curiosity, it also puts the whole thing into context and asks very different historical questions (like, if it's the former, what the bloody hell were the allies doing making such films!)
    My apologies for being unclear the films contain a variety of footage showing killings by various methods done by Australian soldiers, footage of suicide in action (Japanese who shoot themselves) remains of people after brutal deaths and also activities being done to the deceased. They also Include footage of an air field and aerial surveillance and bomb dropping.

    the majority of the film i would say a good 80 percent is simply footage of dead bodies who have all been killed by violent means.
    "Its my profession to hijack time" ~ Stephen Frizza.

  3. #13
    Stephen Frizza's Avatar
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    I should also state these films seem to be a document of soldiers ability to kill enemy combatants.
    "Its my profession to hijack time" ~ Stephen Frizza.

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen Frizza View Post
    I should also state these films seem to be a document of soldiers ability to kill enemy combatants.
    This might be a good time for folks to reflect upon two things:

    1. Justin Silber's post
    and
    2. Article 3 of the Geneva Convention.

    BTW... these seem to pre-date Australias' signing of that Convention, which I believe occured in 1952.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by tim_walls View Post
    Ignoring morbid curiosity, it also puts the whole thing into context and asks very different historical questions (like, if it's the former, what the bloody hell were the allies doing making such films!)
    This is a great question, but not just in the case of "the latter"... also in hte case of "the former." Perhaps we have some combat-experienced vets who would like to help the rest of us understand how/why war make some people do things that they would not otherwise even think of doing.

  6. #16

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    And I see no reason why this should turn into some form of hand-wringing, apologetic discussion because I guessed it might have been Japanese atrocity footage.

    If you wish to indulge in such, be my guest but I want no part of it.

  7. #17
    Urmas R.'s Avatar
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    Thank you for the update. It is very interesting.

    As we all know, the war crimes or crimes against humanity to not expire. Any kind of torture and causing of unnecessary suffering are punishable by law. In the European Union there are still several cases currently open against WWII criminals. These include for instance cases against former Soviet Union military officers. Soviet Union had not signed any convention as well, but this does not save them from court now (unless Russia refuses to give them out). Likewise, there are cases against former Nazi Germany officers or also against some leaders of African states.

    If the photos depict any act that could be interpreted as crime against humanity or war crime and if the person or military group is recognisable, then I see no reason why one cannot turn to the international court.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urmas R. View Post
    Thank you for the update. It is very interesting.

    If the photos depict any act that could be interpreted as crime against humanity or war crime and if the person or military group is recognisable, then I see no reason why one cannot turn to the international court.
    ********
    I think this is why Steven Frizza has been advised by we ignorant folk to find the proper venue, disposition, and usage of these films.

    Regarding the origin of the films: they were made for military reasons. As documentation, perhaps. But of what?

    In the course of research, I have found it necessary to consult autopsy protocols from the battles on Bougainville in 1943-1944 which included photographs. These were considered necessary for better treatment of wounds.

    What could be the purpose in making some of these films. Bombing runs and effectiveness of same, obvious. But why the others.

    FWIW from someone trained as an historian, it is important that these films be turned over to such care that they will be preserved; and not destroyed or buried. Their usefulness must remain to be seen and only if the films, themselves, remain to be seen.
    John, Mount Vernon, Virginia USA

  9. #19
    Stephen Frizza's Avatar
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    Just to update everyone over the next few weeks I will be uploading images from the films to Flickr where they can be viewed. I Strongly warn that scenes in the film MAY BE DISTURBING TO SOME VIEWERS but those withing to view scenes within the films can do so at the link attached. I will be uploading more scenes when i get available time to do so.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/29279649@N02/
    "Its my profession to hijack time" ~ Stephen Frizza.

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen Frizza View Post
    The films are prints onto nitrate stock and not the original film that had been shot in camera. More research is needed to determine if this footage belongs to any archive and what rights I have to display their content.
    Does that mean it is not determined if this is a copy of footage that already exists in an archive somewhere, or some film not previously known?

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