Yet another book about digital negatives

[donbga]

Just thought I might mention that I read a message on the Carbon Printer's list from Dick Sullivan announcing that his son Kevin is writing a book about creating digital negatives for making alternative process prints.

According to Dick, "He's got an easy systematic way to work out the proper curve. He has an 8x10 sheet of colorized step wedges and it is amazing to see the difference in contrast and smoothness ranges when printed on pt of kalli or VDB. You start with the color that gives the best starting wedge response and work from there to develop the curve."

Sounds kind of familiar, but it will be interesting to read Kevin's take on his method.

Don Bryant

[mark]

I would like to see it. Dick and Kevin both are very helpful. When I need easy explanations with no technical BS they are the ones to ask. They gave me the best non-tech answer to a question about negatives for Alt process. Did not wadte my time with talk of densities at all. But the explanation was straight forword and too the point. Cleared everything up for me. If the book is in the same, easy to understand language I will be the first to buy it.

[eyaniv]

Just thought I might mention that I read a message on the Carbon Printer's list from Dick Sullivan announcing that his son Kevin is writing a book about creating digital negatives for making alternative process prints.

According to Dick, "He's got an easy systematic way to work out the proper curve. He has an 8x10 sheet of colorized step wedges and it is amazing to see the difference in contrast and smoothness ranges when printed on pt of kalli or VDB. You start with the color that gives the best starting wedge response and work from there to develop the curve."

Sounds kind of familiar, but it will be interesting to read Kevin's take on his method.

Don Bryant

Is there any further news about this book?

Ehud

[rogein]

I asked Kevin about his 'book' at the start of the year. He was kind enough to email me a 'digest' on how he makes his diginegs. Hopefully he will include the 'files' needed (like the colourized step wedges, etc) to make things easier for first timers. I never fully explored his 'method' as I got caught up in Mark's PDN. After trying so many 'workflows' I'm finding they are all quite similar in many respects. It's in the 'details' like Mark's Curve Calculator that separates them from each other. Sort of like 'how many ways is there to process film'? Still I look forward to Kevin's book.

[Kerik]

Hey Roger,

Have you been able to get rid of the grittiness in digital negs often seen with a pigment printer? I have Mark's PDN, but haven't done the work yet. I've gotten to about page 10 in the manual several times, and then fallen asleep. I need to try reading when the sun is up rather than at bed time...

[rogein]

Hi Kerik,

Yeah it took me a few weeks to weed through Mark's PDN - love the 'workflow' he's developed but dang if I didn't find myself having to constantly thumb back to something I had previously read to figure out what to do next. Of course thinking I would be 'smart' I went straight to the back page hoping to find a one page point by point instruction sheet (for idiots like me) but nooooo.....Mark forced me go through the WHOLE thing! :-)

Anyways, in a word - no. At least not with the 2200 I've been using. I love the 'workflow' and my prints have a wider tonal range than using the quick-n-easy Schreiber method but the 'grain' is still there when compared to the dye 1280. FWIW some have mentioned that the 'green-red' channel is grainer than the 'green-blue' channel. I did an a/b and couldn't see any difference. I've also used the PDN to calibrate a curve using the colour scheme Kevin used. No improvement in the 'grain'.

I've tried EVERYTHING and gone through about 100 shts of OHP (not to mention all that pd). I'm to the point I'm questioning whether it's the spectral response of my uv unit that's maybe in some weird way accentuating the ink on OHP. Crazy eh? What's discouraging is when I read of someone who's seen someone else's prints and they go on and on about they're as 'smooth' as prints made from an in-camera neg, etc. All I have to say is GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!

Good thing 'Tims' is close by......

[Kerik]

Roger,

Thanks for the info. I'm still using a 1280 with Keith's approach and it works well. I'm even considering buying another 1280 as backup since they are so cheap now and I believe it will be the last of the epson dye printers. OTOH, I would also like to go bigger at some point... For now, 95% of my work is still with those smooth and creamy in-camera negs. Like a Tim Horton iced cappucino...

[sanking]

Roger,

Thanks for the info. I'm still using a 1280 with Keith's approach and it works well. I'm even considering buying another 1280 as backup since they are so cheap now and I believe it will be the last of the epson dye printers. OTOH, I would also like to go bigger at some point... For now, 95% of my work is still with those smooth and creamy in-camera negs. Like a Tim Horton iced cappucino...

Kerik,

I believe Mark Nelson's PDN system is the most comprehensive (in the sense of complete) method of making digital negatives. But it is best to start reading PDN it before your third single malt scotch!

Unfortuntely, PDN will not correct the problem of the gritty look with the Epson 2200 printer, and in fact I don't think anything can. However, my understanding is that the R2400 is a vast improvement. For palladium printing, however, I am very satisfied with the tonal quality from negatives made on the 2200.

I would like to mention what I consider to be a significant mistake in Mark's work flow with PDN. He recommends that immediately after scanning that we apply what he calls "recovery sharpening," Amount=300%, Radius= .5, and Levels=0. I have found when working with scans of 8X20 and 12X20 negatives that this recovery sharpening causes a significant increase in the grain in mid-tones and highlight areas.

Sandy

[donbga]

Roger,

Of course thinking I would be 'smart' I went straight to the back page hoping to find a one page point by point instruction sheet (for idiots like me) but nooooo.....Mark forced me go through the WHOLE thing! :-)

I think this is a valid criticism of Mark's book, IMO.

FWIW some have mentioned that the 'green-red' channel is grainer than the 'green-blue' channel. I did an a/b and couldn't see any difference.

I own both the 2200 and 1280 and the 1280 is less grainy but the printer also has a different dither than the 2200 which I can see at times with some prints. However, the Red ink negs (as well as the prints made from those) do have more apparent grain to my eye than the Green/Blue.

I've been making tri-color gum prints from CMY seperations made with black ink only and they don't seem to have as much grain as some prints made with colored pigment inks. I think one reason for this is that the BO negs are really a combination of the PK and LK inks giving a smoother result (print wise) but then again I may be imagining things.

The 2400/4800 are supposed to make better prints. A good friend of mine just purchased a 2400 and as soon as I get some time I plan to get him to print the Color Density Range Pallete for testing. IF it does turn out that the 2400 is noticeably better then I'll begin saving for a 4800.

Don Bryant

[rogein]

Kerik,

'In-camera' neg is still the way to go for ulimate smoothness though Sandy and others have hinted that the newer Epsons are improved in this area. On hindsight the 'grain/grittiness' from the 2200 reminds me of the old Leica/Rodinal days - not necessarily a bad thing depending on where you're coming from.

Thank goodness Tims absolutely squashed that upstart KrispyCreme up here!

Roger,

Thanks for the info. I'm still using a 1280 with Keith's approach and it works well. I'm even considering buying another 1280 as backup since they are so cheap now and I believe it will be the last of the epson dye printers. OTOH, I would also like to go bigger at some point... For now, 95% of my work is still with those smooth and creamy in-camera negs. Like a Tim Horton iced cappucino...