film/dev combo for scanning

[shinn]

I hope this is an acceptable topic... What type of negatives do scanners respond to best for making enlarged negs on a desktop printer?

Are there films and developers that are better suited than others for this?

Happy Days
Mark

[JeffD]

I don't think one film/developer combo is much better than another for scanning. Just make sure your negative is exposed properly- enough density in the shadows, and not too blocked up in the brighter parts of the scene.

Of course, you need to be fairly skilled at scanning- in which case, any well exposed and developed negative should be fine.

[shinn]

Thanks JeffD... I've been wondering if I needed to do anything differently before giving this a whirl.

Happy Days
Mark

[sanking]

I don't think one film/developer combo is much better than another for scanning. Just make sure your negative is exposed properly- enough density in the shadows, and not too blocked up in the brighter parts of the scene.

Of course, you need to be fairly skilled at scanning- in which case, any well exposed and developed negative should be fine.

I have done a great deal of scanning original in-camera negatives for making digital negatives for alternative printing over the past two years or so and I basically agree with Jeff's remarks. But I will add just a couple of comments that may be of some use.

First, even though scanning minimizes most of the advantages stained negatives have over traditional ones there are still, at least in my opinion, a couple of advantages for stained negatives: 1) The scanner sees stain density, which minimizes grain, and 2) if the original negative was made in a strongly back lit scenes there is a good possibility that the stained negative will have better separation in those areas of the scene where objects of fine detail (say tree limbs) are in contrast with a very bright source (say the sun).

If you are developing film *just* for scanning you probably should develop to a fairly low CI, say about what you would need for printing in silver. However, since I am interested primarily in alternative printing I develop all of my negatives, in Pyrocat-HD, to an effective DR of about 1.6 or 1.7, which equates to a CI of about .75 to .85. I have had no problem scanning these negatives with the Epson 4870. I have also been able to make good scans of some of my older negatives that were developed in PMK to a slightly lower DR, say about 1.5.

Sandy

[shinn]

Thanks for the responses.

The info on DR will help alot, It sounds like it may be easier to make a negative with scanning in mind...would that lower the amount of tonal manipulation needed in PS?

Happy Days
Mark

[sanking]

Thanks for the responses.

The info on DR will help alot, It sounds like it may be easier to make a negative with scanning in mind...would that lower the amount of tonal manipulation needed in PS?

Happy Days
Mark

Yes, it is probably true that it is easier to make a good negative with scanning in mind than if it is to be printed directly. But nevertheless a negative that is well exposed and developed will require less manipulation in Photoshop than one that is not. The key with negatives meant for scanning, as it is for negatives that are to be printed directly, is to expose for good shadow detail, and then develop for the right amount of time.

Sandy King

[JeffD]

First, even though scanning minimizes most of the advantages stained negatives have over traditional ones there are still, at least in my opinion, a couple of advantages for stained negatives: 1) The scanner sees stain density, which minimizes grain, and 2) if the original negative was made in a strongly back lit scenes there is a good possibility that the stained negative will have better separation in those areas of the scene where objects of fine detail (say tree limbs) are in contrast with a very bright source (say the sun).

Sandy, are you scanning your stained negatives in color? If so, do you then use the channel mixer when de-saturating?

I have developed some negs in pyrocat HD, but don't know if I can tell much difference. I am told that the stain should have some negative masking effect. I was thinking that the greenish color could somehow be useful, if one desaturates in channel mixer properly. Anyone doing this w/ pyro negatives? How should I manipulate the channel mixer sliders for best effect?

I know you can desaturate color images in channel mixer, and can obtain a kind of filtration effect which is kind of neat for brightening or darkening the tones representing certain colors in the scene.

[shinn]

I'm pretty sure my troubles stem from a lack of scanning and ps techniques. I really feel as if I am fighting with a bad negative in the dim room but this is on my monitor...I haven't even gotten to the neg part yet.

Thanks again guys, its back to the book(s) and the scanner with some negs that may be more suitable for me.

I have Dan Burkolders book and plan to get PDN real soon, but can anyone suggest a book on PS that will help more than confuse?

Happy Days
Mark

[gr82bart]

The best scanning results are obtained when your scanner is calibrated using an IT8 target and calibration software. There are IT8 targets made from each of the main film manufacturers Kodak, Fuiji and Agfa, (and also in tw different sizes - 35mm and 4x5) to my knowledge. Once your scanner is calibrated to the IT8 target and an ICC profile is created for each of the film types, you're all set.

There are also 'generic' IT8 targets out there. These targets are not made on film but are 'printed' on acetate or other transparent 'plastic'.

Regards, Art.

[donbga]

Sandy, are you scanning your stained negatives in color? If so, do you then use the channel mixer when de-saturating?

I have developed some negs in pyrocat HD, but don't know if I can tell much difference. I am told that the stain should have some negative masking effect. I was thinking that the greenish color could somehow be useful, if one desaturates in channel mixer properly. Anyone doing this w/ pyro negatives? How should I manipulate the channel mixer sliders for best effect?

I know you can desaturate color images in channel mixer, and can obtain a kind of filtration effect which is kind of neat for brightening or darkening the tones representing certain colors in the scene.

Jeff,

For b&w negatives the channel mixer is essentially useless. Instead, if you scan your film in RGB mode look at each of the channels; one may provide a better tonal palette than the others, if so split the channels and use the color channel you prefer the most.

Don