Denver area car show, photo op... 8/27/2011

[toro_mike]

I am organizing a classic car get-together this weekend at the free Great Indoors Store meet-up on Saturday from 8am to around 11am. These boys need some real classics to look at as the show is overwhelmingly modern (BMW's, Mercedes, Ferraris, etc. - the tuner crowd). If you have a car, any car you can show - condition does not matter, bring it, or just show up and take photos. It should be a great event to shoot. I will be the one with a white '68 Toronado (and green '69 beater Toronado) and a Pentax 6x7 behemoth. With Cars and Coffee not meeting for who-knows how long, this is a great alternative and should be fun.

The Great Indoors is in Lone Tree, CO, at I25 and County Line Road (right before E470). Click HERE for a map of the location.

[Jeff Kubach]

I believe the Toronado is one of the first American cars that is front wheel drive.

Jeff

[toro_mike]

I believe the Toronado is one of the first American cars that is front wheel drive.

Jeff

Well, you'd be correct if you didn't count the 1934 Cord. It was the last until the 1966 Toro came out (with the exception of some very small cars and race cars), though no production front wheel drive was ever as powerful as the 66 Toro - 385HP. The '66 had styling cues from the Cord to pay homage...

Mine being a 1968 came with 375HP and 500ft/lbs of torque

[mathomas]

I think I can make this. I might bring my '82 Porsche 911, but will certainly bring a camera, if I come. Thanks for the heads-up, Mike.

[toro_mike]

I think I can make this. I might bring my '82 Porsche 911, but will certainly bring a camera, if I come. Thanks for the heads-up, Mike.

No problem... Hope to see you there Mike, with the Porsche or not! It ought to be a good turnout!

Mike

[2F/2F]

...no production front wheel drive was ever as powerful as the 66 Toro - 385HP.

Not until 1970; the Eldo came with 400/550 hp/torque, respectively.

But horsepower ratings back then were largely fluff anyhow, as they were gross ratings taken off of the cranks. (They also didn't give much of a hint at actual acceleration capabilities, since they did not factor in the weight of the automobiles, or the gearing. Those 375 horsepower Oldses and Eldos would probably have trouble getting from 0-60 in under 10 seconds unless in the hands of a skilled driver.) When the U.S. auto industry stopped using gross horsepower ratings in the 1970's, the rated horsepower of those 7 and 8 L engines, which had already dropped below 250 due to compression reduction (i.e. smog controls), went down to below 200 due to factoring in the enormous drivetrain losses of the day. That's right: under 200 hp from over 8 L of displacement. They got less power than a modern high-end Honda while displacing over four times as much volume.

My point is that in order to make that statement, the gross hp rating really needs to be converted to net hp, and compared to all the high-performance front wheel drive cars that have come out in the past 20 years. My guess would be that the 385 hp would be closer to 300, in which case several modern fwd autos have it beat.

BYW, have fun at the meet. Show those fools what's up.

[toro_mike]

Not until 1970; the Eldo came with 400/550 hp/torque, respectively.

But horsepower ratings back then were largely fluff anyhow, as they were gross ratings taken off of the cranks. (They also didn't give much of a hint at actual acceleration capabilities, since they did not factor in the weight of the automobiles, or the gearing. Those 375 horsepower Oldses and Eldos would probably have trouble getting from 0-60 in under 10 seconds unless in the hands of a skilled driver.) When the U.S. auto industry stopped using gross horsepower ratings in the 1970's, the rated horsepower of those 7 and 8 L engines, which had already dropped below 250 due to compression reduction (i.e. smog controls), went down to below 200 due to factoring in the enormous drivetrain losses of the day. That's right: under 200 hp from over 8 L of displacement. They got less power than a modern high-end Honda while displacing over four times as much volume.

My point is that in order to make that statement, the gross hp rating really needs to be converted to net hp, and compared to all the high-performance front wheel drive cars that have come out in the past 20 years. My guess would be that the 385 hp would be closer to 300, in which case several modern fwd autos have it beat.

BYW, have fun at the meet. Show those fools what's up.

Thanks! I think it will be a great meet. I'll post photos when I get the film processed. EDIT: I should have said when I process and scan my film!

You are correct in all that you say, of course. I should have said that none were as powerful BEFORE the 1966 Toro. Also, the 1968 Toronado had a performance package called the W34 package which boosted hp to 400 hp and 500 torque. A touch less torque than the 70 Eldo, but still very impressive. They sadly only made 111 of them, but that engine did go into the Hurst Olds later on in '68. In '69, around 3000 are believed to have been produced.

[2F/2F]

Just getting into a car discussion, not busting your balls, Mike. I am an old car lover, so I ain't bustin' their balls either! My first car was a '65 Caddy hearse/ambulance combination coach (22 feet long, 3.5 tons, 429 mill), so I love those old boats.

[toro_mike]

I understood where you were coming from and I appreciate your input and clarification. We old car guys (nuts??) have to stick together

My first car was a 1969 Olds Ninety Eight, which was ALMOST as big as that hearse! What a car that hearse/ambulance had to have been...
Thankfully the Toro is a tad smaller...

[2F/2F]

I have been out of ownership of an old car since I sold my last one seven years ago. It was a real beauty. A '65 2+2 Mustang that had had a vintage swap done by the original owner (from whom I bought the car). The engine was a rare factory 302 Hi-Po. (I had never even heard of the engine until I got this car; all I knew about were the famous 289 Hi-Po mills.) He had done the proper factory suspension and brake/hub/rear end mods to match (was originally a 6), and it had a three speed stick from a truck. Nice to have the rare engine, even though it was from a later model year, but I wished the car had been original, as that was also a rare combination: 6 cylinder, but instead of the normal 3 speed stick, it had the light duty 4 speed stick that was originally made for Ford's overseas car lines. It was also a very early production fastback, from the first month they were made. Ah, to have back some of the cool stuff I have sold over the years...