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  1. #11
    Digitaltruth's Avatar
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    There is no specific date set for the release of the film developers. We intend to begin product development shortly, and start field testing as soon as possible. I hope we can release the film developers by the end of 2006, but we this will depend on how long it takes to successfully complete the field tests.
    --Jon Mided

    Digitaltruth Photo
    http://www.digitaltruth.com

  2. #12
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    "Quite simply, Silvergrain is the best photo chemistry that has ever been produced."

    Oh. Okay.

    Isn't that something that needs to be earned rather than claimed ?

    If it IS good, you don't need to hype it. Not here.

    good luck

    d
    "One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid,
    and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision"

    -Bertrand Russell

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by df cardwell
    If it IS good, you don't need to hype it. Not here.
    I agree. (But at the same time I am not the one who's doing the sales/marketing/all other business.)

    One thing I can say is that the production formulae are no worse than my published formulae, and you see how people comment on the published versions.

  4. #14

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    Ryuji,

    What is your recommendation for replentishing the paper developers in a slot processor? I"m finally going to get my homemade 20x24 processor up and running this summer.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter De Smidt
    What is your recommendation for replentishing the paper developers in a slot processor? I"m finally going to get my homemade 20x24 processor up and running this summer.
    Wow, 20x24 processor! My Nova is only 12x16 size, so for 20x24, I use a single-tray method.

    So you know I solved the technical part of your question a long time ago when I bought my Nova in 1990s...

    They didn't manufacture Tektol Replenishers this time, but, as you suspect, there is such formula. If they decide to offer Tektol Replenisher at some point, that'll keep your tank running for very many papers without total replacement of the solution.

    The close next best option is to top up your tank with the same developer solution to make up for the fluid loss. When you notice significant extension of development time is necessary, you want to start over the tank. In reality, the fixer gets exhausted at some point anyway, and you might want to replace the whole tank at that point, or every other time the fixer is replaced. So this is still a good option. (If I were the business person, I would tell you this part first!)

    I don't anticipate a problem with most common papers. Some paper emulsions, like Kodabromide, Brovira, Ilfobrom Galerie, Multigrade Cooltone, etc. may be faster in exhausting the developer than most other papers. It's kinda detail but you might want to keep in mind if you use mainly these papers.

  6. #16

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    Thanks for the clearer answer to my original question!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryuji
    What if Tektol Standard is too warm (or greenish) but Neutral is too cool? Mix 'em. .... It took me some time to convince Jon with this idea but I hope creative photographers will see the merit.)
    I seem to recall reading advice about doing this with other developers, too, like Dektol and Selectol. I've never done it myself, but it seems like an idea that's established enough that it shouldn't take much convincing.

    I put a mix-it-yourself version on the Clearwash description (which you can click on the digitaltruth storefront page). Yup, I know I'm crazy to do this
    I wouldn't say so. It's sort of like open source software. On the face of it, who'd pay to buy a copy of Red Hat Linux or OpenOffice.org when you can download them for free? In fact, lots of people do pay for these products because the commercial versions have small improvements, come with support, etc. Closer to home, Kodak sells gobs of D-76 and Dektol, even though the formulas (or very close analogs to them) are readily available.

    Another factor is cross-recommendations. As a user of DS-14, I can now recommend Tektol Standard to somebody who wants a liquid concentrate paper developer that works like DS-14. Even if I keep using my home-made DS-14, that gains sales for Tektol Standard. Sales losses can occur if/when users of the bottled products switch to mixing their own, but I expect most of those losses would have occurred anyhow.

    Finally, providing the formulas adds to the comfort level. With manufacturers closing up shop and dropping products left and right, knowing that a formula (or even just a close cousin to it) is available online means that investing in learning the subtleties of a new product won't be in vain, even if the product disappears from the market.

  7. #17
    df cardwell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryuji
    I agree. (But at the same time I am not the one who's doing the sales/marketing/all other business.)

    One thing I can say is that the production formulae are no worse than my published formulae, and you see how people comment on the published versions.
    I hope it's very successful for you.

    The sales / marketing problem is hard to solve: your work is quite elegant, the marketing needs to suggest a depth and clarity-of-purpose to the designs.

    best of luck

    df
    "One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid,
    and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision"

    -Bertrand Russell

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by srs5694
    I seem to recall reading advice about doing this with other developers, too, like Dektol and Selectol. I've never done it myself, but it seems like an idea that's established enough that it shouldn't take much convincing.
    Most manuals use those two developers in succession and vary the time. But the idea is similar, except that the technique I described is strictly for hue control and not contrast.

    Another factor is cross-recommendations. As a user of DS-14, I can now recommend Tektol Standard to somebody who wants a liquid concentrate paper developer that works like DS-14.
    I know Jon prepared my published formulae and tested them himself first, but I also think that Jon was happy to set up the manufacturing side and pay for the initial investments because of this effect...

    Finally, providing the formulas adds to the comfort level. With manufacturers closing up shop and dropping products left and right, knowing that a formula (or even just a close cousin to it) is available online means that investing in learning the subtleties of a new product won't be in vain, even if the product disappears from the market.
    Well, I'm still young and don't plan to stop using film. There should be a way to manage risks like you said and still provide convenience of buying a ready-to-use mix. For example, I understand taht Crawley publishes the formula for discontinued Paterson products that he designed.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by srs5694
    Thanks for the clearer answer to my original question!



    I seem to recall reading advice about doing this with other developers, too, like Dektol and Selectol. I've never done it myself, but it seems like an idea that's established enough that it shouldn't take much convincing.



    I wouldn't say so. It's sort of like open source software. On the face of it, who'd pay to buy a copy of Red Hat Linux or OpenOffice.org when you can download them for free? In fact, lots of people do pay for these products because the commercial versions have small improvements, come with support, etc. Closer to home, Kodak sells gobs of D-76 and Dektol, even though the formulas (or very close analogs to them) are readily available.

    Another factor is cross-recommendations. As a user of DS-14, I can now recommend Tektol Standard to somebody who wants a liquid concentrate paper developer that works like DS-14. Even if I keep using my home-made DS-14, that gains sales for Tektol Standard. Sales losses can occur if/when users of the bottled products switch to mixing their own, but I expect most of those losses would have occurred anyhow.

    Finally, providing the formulas adds to the comfort level. With manufacturers closing up shop and dropping products left and right, knowing that a formula (or even just a close cousin to it) is available online means that investing in learning the subtleties of a new product won't be in vain, even if the product disappears from the market.
    Glad to see this, Ryuji!

    Great news!
    Tom Hoskinson
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    Everything is analog - even digital :D

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryuji
    I agree. (But at the same time I am not the one who's doing the sales/marketing/all other business.)
    I disagree. The claim that the products are the "best" is a statement of fact. Of course, facts are open to dispute, but life would be boring if we limited our ability to express ourselves to purely descriptive language. Everyone is free to disagree.

    The products have been formulated to maintain or surpass existing standards of quality and archival properties, and have lower toxicity than other commercially produced photo chemicals. By this measure, Silvergrain products are the best. Of course, photography is a creative business, and I am not disputing the qualities available in other products, many of which may also be the "best" for particular applications or effects. What is the best for me may not be the best for someone else, etc... etc... At the end of the day this is a press release, and its purpose is to raise awareness about the products: there is no intent whatsoever to make unjustified claims and I trust that people will pardon the sales patter and try the products for themselves.
    --Jon Mided

    Digitaltruth Photo
    http://www.digitaltruth.com

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