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  1. #21

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    I sat the Prontor SVS on top of the computer overnight (about 38C) and then gave it a few operations.
    It got progressively worse and now the lower speeds do not work at all, the shutter sticks open while the escapement fails to spin up.
    The escapement can be made to complete by flicking the lever but it is sluggish.

    I downloaded the Gauthier service manuals. It appears mine is an early model SVS (10 ap blades) and the manual notes a few design problems with that model in the first year and later came several versions of the synchronizer,
    reduced number of ap blades, and a cosmetic change for identification.

    For problem that my shutter has per above, the manual says "Rinse mechanism in pure petrol (gasoline)."
    The shutter is not lubricated (strict note in manual)
    Grease is only used on the outer time ring and the diaphagm mechanism.

    I can see some grease starting to appear on one of the shutter blades.
    I might send it to the guy who did my Nettar shutter.
    He ultrasonically cleaned that one and it works OK now.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by wombat2go View Post
    I sat the Prontor SVS on top of the computer overnight (about 38C) and then gave it a few operations.
    It got progressively worse and now the lower speeds do not work at all, the shutter sticks open while the escapement fails to spin up.
    The escapement can be made to complete by flicking the lever but it is sluggish.

    I downloaded the Gauthier service manuals. It appears mine is an early model SVS (10 ap blades) and the manual notes a few design problems with that model in the first year and later came several versions of the synchronizer,
    reduced number of ap blades, and a cosmetic change for identification.

    For problem that my shutter has per above, the manual says "Rinse mechanism in pure petrol (gasoline)."
    The shutter is not lubricated (strict note in manual)
    Grease is only used on the outer time ring and the diaphagm mechanism.

    I can see some grease starting to appear on one of the shutter blades.
    I might send it to the guy who did my Nettar shutter.
    He ultrasonically cleaned that one and it works OK now.
    By that, they mean what used to be called "white gas" that is gas with no additives, straight distillate. The easiest to find acceptable substitute would be Coleman fuel.
    Warming the shutter in this case allowed the oils from the separated grease to migrate further into where it does not belong.

  3. #23
    Tom1956's Avatar
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    Well, as of last night I have declared the "soak in naptha trick" to be worthless, and began disassembly of my Graphex-X shutter (which is not exactly like the online material for Graphex). The only way I can hope to be happy with the accuracy of all my speeds is to get this thing all apart, cleaned, lubed properly, and back together again. Wish me luck. I think I can get it done without some spring flying across the room ending up in the upholstery never to be seen again.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by E. von Hoegh View Post
    By that, they mean what used to be called "white gas" that is gas with no additives, straight distillate.
    The term petrol and gasoline in a 1957 translation from Gauthier's German manual surely refers to the automotive fuels. the English term was "white spirit" otherwise.
    At that time, petrol (as I recall, both grades) contained tetra-ethyl-lead plus other additives including upper cylinder lubricants.
    I grew up in my father's auto dealership/workshop and to clean things including small parts they used half/half petrol/kerosine in a high air pressure spray gun.
    Flammable and a health hazard (although those guys lived long ! ) it sure got the parts clean and probably left some lube on the surface.

    I haven't opened the Prontor SVS here but from what I can see it is not up to the quality of the Graflex Wollensak ones here.

  5. #25
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    Disassembly Process Tips

    Early on in the disassembly process, I am proceeding carefully. This job WILL turn out correctly. With some previous study of the exploded diagrams on this one, the manufacturer was so kind as to have made them. It's actually step numbered. Adding to this, I laid the slightly disassembled shutter face down on the scanner, brought it into Photoshop and re-sized it for a full-sheet output on 8 1/2 x 11 10pt C1S in Indesign and ran it to the color copier. Now I have a big full-color blow-up of the shutter, and from there, it is simply a matter of pulling parts and laying them on shop rags in order. Simple as pie.
    I can do this, and it WILL turn out right.

  6. #26
    Jon Shiu's Avatar
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    I don't know about that particular model, but the Prontor Press shutters I've owned had gummed up shutter blades. It was pretty easy to clean them by opening the back and taking them out to clean. It is easiest to replace the blades when the shutter is in the closed position, and the "extra" blade goes on top of the first one you put in after putting the rest in clockwise.

    Jon
    Quote Originally Posted by wombat2go View Post
    The term petrol and gasoline in a 1957 translation from Gauthier's German manual surely refers to the automotive fuels. the English term was "white spirit" otherwise.
    At that time, petrol (as I recall, both grades) contained tetra-ethyl-lead plus other additives including upper cylinder lubricants.
    I grew up in my father's auto dealership/workshop and to clean things including small parts they used half/half petrol/kerosine in a high air pressure spray gun.
    Flammable and a health hazard (although those guys lived long ! ) it sure got the parts clean and probably left some lube on the surface.

    I haven't opened the Prontor SVS here but from what I can see it is not up to the quality of the Graflex Wollensak ones here.
    Mendocino Coast Black and White Photography: www.jonshiu.com

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom1956 View Post
    Early on in the disassembly process, I am proceeding carefully. This job WILL turn out correctly. With some previous study of the exploded diagrams on this one, the manufacturer was so kind as to have made them. It's actually step numbered. Adding to this, I laid the slightly disassembled shutter face down on the scanner, brought it into Photoshop and re-sized it for a full-sheet output on 8 1/2 x 11 10pt C1S in Indesign and ran it to the color copier. Now I have a big full-color blow-up of the shutter, and from there, it is simply a matter of pulling parts and laying them on shop rags in order. Simple as pie.
    I can do this, and it WILL turn out right.
    Great attitude!

    I have a Graphex shutter from out of one of my Crown Graphics that has sat for too many years and needs a good cleaning. I have decided to send mine to Carol to disassemble and clean (and repair if needed) but I will be following your descriptions with intense interest.

    And Good Luck!

  8. #28
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    Thank you. Now well into the process I am getting to some things that were beneath other things, to where I couldn't initially see them. In other words I feel it slipping away into confusion territory if I don't stop and make another scan and printed blow-up of where I am now. And of course, to continue layint the parts out on rags, in order. I can see myself able now to get down to the plate. And underneathe that plate I expect to find the shutter blades. That's what I'm after--those blades and their drive plate, or ring, or whatever you call it. I haven't decided whether to go further and fool with the diaphragm. As it is, I never had a complaint about that assembly.
    But now I have to cook supper, so this may be a stopping point till tomorrow night. If I get it back together by the first of the week, I'll be happy. So far, so good. Had a tough little spring pop my finger a little, but that's because I refused to take my fingernail off the pivot point and let the spring fly away into oblivion.

  9. #29
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    Date 10-6-13, 2-4 days later than last post. People are waiting to read about this No 2 Graphex-X project for 135 Optar. It has been a pretty tedious project, which I followed exactly by the manual available online. I allowed no mistakes, and fortunately, there were none. I did a perfect job, and made no mistakes (uncommon for me). I was only concerned with that, regardless of outcome. But the outcome of it was no change. Disappointing. I only have proper accuracy at speeds 25 and 50. The slow speeds are still too fast, and the fast speeds are too slow. BUT, what I have here is a properly cleaned and lubricated mechanism. This provides a solid basis for swagging/filing of the speed cam (dial). And upon inspection I observe a previous service person has piddled around at this, but did not complete it properly. He swagged (raised cam surface) on the slow speeds, and filed cam surface on the fast ones. He should have done the reverse.
    I should point out for future readers that of the several shutters I have tested, that the top speed as marked on the dial is rarely much faster than the next to last. (400 in not much faster than 200). When you see 400 or 500 at the top speed on an iris shutter, just laugh, because it isn't so.
    For those of you with manual in hand and waiting for me to report it's accuracy, it IS pretty accurate. I caution you to pay careful attention to reassembling the part called "Blade lever spring". Be very careful to check for its ability to pivot when the screw is tightened down. This requires patience and a light touch. You can easily bend it while tightening the screw, and lock it into position, denying it of its needed movement. The result of this will be destruction of this spring in a short period of time. This spring is irreplaceable. Foul up this one step in the reassembly process is to ruin the project and throwing the whole shutter in the garbage.
    This shutter project is not for the inexperienced worker. It was only because of my many years of electronic, mechanical, and automotive repair that I dared tackle this project. Beware.

  10. #30
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    Thanks Tom 1956. I have serious shaky hands so I seriously doubt I want to tackle this on my own, but I do find it very interesting. I have done a bit of work on some of my older and inexpensive Agfa folders with variable results. The first did not work out very well but the second is actually running though I have no idea if the speeds are accurate. I guess I should find a shutter tester so I can test it.

    I will never be a camera tech but it is fun to play with my own stuff.

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