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  1. #1

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    Nom & Jelly's 8x10 View Camera Project

    Hello All,

    The desire to get an 810 view camera, and the shortage of funds has inspired me to start my own home 810 project. I have access to a very good carpenter, they are in wood works for generations. Labour costs are very very cheap here in Pakistan, and we have access to some fine wood. So why not start my own little production, seems like a good idea, especially because my wife is in support and why not as she could see a savings of thousands of dollars in future (my plan to eventually buy a Deardorff).

    The only missing piece is the transfer of knowledge, and I am hoping if someone here can play this crucial role. I believe, there are two ways to go about it; one you can share drawings - also you can recommend possible changes to get the best of all in one (not entirely possible but we can try). The second, if someone can lend a 810 to be used as sample and be returned once we make our first. This is the most workable option, as skill is abundant here but capability to visualise and produce to that vision is seriously missing. Although, it seems like a copying project, but I guess that's how similar products are made not everyone invents them. Also, if we can improve upon them based on the field experience then at least we would be making some advancement. I feel, if I can show one working then I feel it will be a very easy job for him.

    Having said that, I am open to suggestions.

    How might this work in business terms:

    1. You will have to make an investment by sending me 8x10 camera
    2. I will bear the cost of production
    3. We can setup a website, with your address and I ship to you so that delivery in
    your country (I would like multiple partners meaning from different countries) is
    quick.
    4. Initially, I would produce and send to you, all costs by me. Later, if it picks up
    then you can preorder.

    Let me know if this sounds good to anyone, I think we can produce an 810 in an amazing price and make this wonderful medium available to most who want to take the leap.

    You can also PM or write to me at raffay.abdul@gmail.com if you feel more comfortable in that.

    Cheers,
    Raffay.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  2. #2
    BradS's Avatar
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    As an engineer with a twenty plus year career of visualizing, designing and bringing ideas to life, I find this offensive in the extreme.

  3. #3
    Jim Jones's Avatar
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    As someone who has seen both in America and overseas what can be accomplished in the absence of trained engineers and sophisticated production facilities, I applaud Raffay's desire to bring the advantages of LF photography to those without the means we take for granted in America. Some information on building a LF camera with basic skills and tools can be found at home.online.no/~gjon/jgcam.htm.

  4. #4
    BradS's Avatar
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    Yes, building something of your own design or from a design you paid for or from plans that have been placed into the public domain is to be applauded. It's the notion that it is OK to rip off somebody else's design because you're too cheap, lazy or unskilled to come up with your own that is offensive.

    Maybe the OP should call Mike Walker or Keith Canham and ask for the drawings for their cameras? Even better...Ron Wisner!

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by BradS View Post
    Yes, building something of your own design or from a design you paid for or from plans that have been placed into the public domain is to be applauded. It's the notion that it is OK to rip off somebody else's design because you're too cheap, lazy or unskilled to come up with your own that is offensive.

    Maybe the OP should call Mike Walker or Keith Canham and ask for the drawings for their cameras? Even better...Ron Wisner!
    Or, he could get an old Eastman IId, a Deardorff (I think he'd do the Deardorff legacy more justice by copying one than that Cochran character is doing), a Century... in short any number of "obsolete" designs which are in the public domain.

    Anyone out there remember the Raja? Raffay wouldn't be the first...

  6. #6
    horacekenneth's Avatar
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    That sounds cool! I don't know much about building cameras, but I wonder if you could even use a 4x5 or 5x7 camera as a model and just change the size requirements?

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by horacekenneth View Post
    That sounds cool! I don't know much about building cameras, but I wonder if you could even use a 4x5 or 5x7 camera as a model and just change the size requirements?
    That's how Deardorff, Eastman, and others did it. You don't scale everything 2x from 4x5, of course.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by BradS View Post
    As an engineer with a twenty plus year career of visualizing, designing and bringing ideas to life, I find this offensive in the extreme.
    As another engineer (albeit with only an 18-year career so far), I don't. It doesn't sound to me like he's talking about pirating a cutting-edge technical design but about doing a basic wooden field camera of good quality; that cat has already been skun a long time ago, as far as design innovations go.

    As EvH (Eddie van Halen? Hmm, has anyone ever seen the two of them together? :-) pointed out, the essentially common design of early-20th-century wooden cameras like the Eastman 2-D is long since in the public domain. I find nothing to get upset about in reverse-engineering a PD design.

    -NT
    Nathan Tenny
    San Diego, CA, USA

    The lady of the house has to be a pretty swell sort of person to put up with the annoyance of a photographer.
    -The Little Technical Library, _Developing, Printing, And Enlarging_

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by ntenny View Post
    As another engineer (albeit with only an 18-year career so far), I don't. It doesn't sound to me like he's talking about pirating a cutting-edge technical design but about doing a basic wooden field camera of good quality; that cat has already been skun a long time ago, as far as design innovations go.

    As EvH (Eddie van Halen? Hmm, has anyone ever seen the two of them together? :-) pointed out, the essentially common design of early-20th-century wooden cameras like the Eastman 2-D is long since in the public domain. I find nothing to get upset about in reverse-engineering a PD design.

    -NT
    I can't play guitar. He can't design lenses.

  10. #10
    BradS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ntenny View Post
    As another engineer (albeit with only an 18-year career so far), I don't. It doesn't sound to me like he's talking about pirating a cutting-edge technical design but about doing a basic wooden field camera of good quality; that cat has already been skun a long time ago, as far as design innovations go.

    As EvH (Eddie van Halen? Hmm, has anyone ever seen the two of them together? :-) pointed out, the essentially common design of early-20th-century wooden cameras like the Eastman 2-D is long since in the public domain. I find nothing to get upset about in reverse-engineering a PD design.

    -NT

    Agreed. I see nothing wrong with looking at expired patents or drawing inspiration from and potentially improving upon an classic design (especially one that is in the public domain). As engineers, we all stand upon the shoulders of the thousands upon thousands of intelligent, hard working people who came before us. We learn from the past, improve upon it, take inspiration from it, add value. Only rarely does anybody come out with something that is truly innovative...and even then, we usually follow the science.

    I would encourage the OP to look carefully at as many existing designs as possible....even if only at photos. There is much one can learn from this. Dig up old patents, try to understand what is being described and how it fits in history...was it a significant improvement? Make notes, sketch ideas. Educate yourself in the skills necessary to accomplish your goals. (read books and work the exercises). Think about what you want and what can be done with the tools, materials and skills available. Think about the economics of whatever it is you propose to do.

    Raffay, in a similar thread on this topic (which, I think you also started) several people suggested that you start by making a simple box camera...have you done that? If not, why not? It would be very instructive and, you would learn much from the experience. I do not personally believe it realistic to think that one who is unwilling or unable to first try to make a simple box camera could produce a new field camera. After that, after you have tried to make something primitive, think about what additional features you'd like/need. Then figure out how to add those features economically.

    As EvH suggested, there could be a real benefit to the market if a new high quality wooden field camera inspired by Deardorff designs were made available at a competitive price. Arguably , Shen-Hoa has already done this however and Keith Canham has made a fantastic camera based (in my opinion) upon his brilliant interpretation and modernization of the classic Deardorff design.

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