Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 75,235   Posts: 1,659,971   Online: 960
      
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 20
  1. #1
    paul_c5x4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Ye Olde England
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    1,766
    Images
    26

    Goerz Dagor: Broken iris.

    Setting up a camera and twisting the aperture, I noticed things were not as smooth as they should be - It felt like something was binding inside my 360mm Goerz Dagor (dating from around 1908). Popped the cells out and found one of the pins missing from an iris blade and it is missing another completely. Making and fitting a new pin is going to be challenging as it is tiny (1.5mm Dia, 0.8mm long). Should be able to find some brass rod, so it shouldn't be too much of a problem...

    The missing blade could well prove to be another matter - Cutting 0.008" sheet is going to be tricky, and as for measuring it to determine inside & outside radii and pin locations, I may well struggle. Don't suppose anyone has a dimensioned drawing available ?


    Before anyone suggests Flutot's or SK Grimes - Neither are an option due to shipping costs and money.

  2. #2
    Mustafa Umut Sarac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    İstanbul - Türkiye
    Shooter
    35mm RF
    Posts
    4,263
    Images
    110
    Contact with Carl Zeiss Archives , they sent me few Dagor diagrams , 3 or so and I posted to the articles , they were the only dagor diagrams in entire zeiss archive. If they dont reply in two days , write again and ask them whats going on, thats the way to get technical know how from an german archive.

    http://www.zeiss.com/corporate/en_de...s/inquiry.html
    http://www.zeiss.com/corporate/en_de...s/inquiry.html

    For product literature , 100000 of them are there but I could not locate in 1908 , any related document .

    http://www.zeiss.com/corporate/en_de...uct-literature

    There is a German search option in archives .

    http://www.archive.zeiss.de/dok_star...zeiss&dm=akten

    I found two papers related to Dagor.


    VEB 1948-1964 Als Lesezeichen speichern
    Signatur neu:
    BACZ 7976
    Herkunft:
    Photoobjektive
    Aktentitel:
    669 Korrektions-Darstellungen von Photo-Objektiven eigener Zeissfertigung und fremder Firmen
    enthält:
    Fotokopien
    Laufzeit:
    1920 - 1950
    Stichwörter:
    Fotoobjektive, Darstellungen; Fotoobjektive, Zeissfertigung, Darstellung; Fotoobjektive, fremde Firmen, Darstellung
    Geräte:
    Tessar 4,5/40; Ernemann 2:10; Tessar 6,3/50; Triplet 3.2:178; Triplet 2,7/7,5; Triotar 3,0/2,7; Hypar 3/35, modifiziert; Tessar 2,7/8,2; Tessar 2,7/8; Teleobjektiv, Rudolph 8/50; Projektionsobjektiv, Müller/Wetzig, 3,6/32; Triotar 3,5/21; Triplet, Spiegelglas, 3,6/7,5; Projektionstriplet, 3,6/15; Tessar 3,57/15; Heliar 4,5/15; Biotar 1,8/8.5; Sucherobjektiv 4,5/7,5; Dogmar 3,5/100,7; Ernemann 2:100; Teleobjektiv 4,5/10; Teleobjektiv 5,3/10; Ernostar 2,7/10; Biotar 1,8/12; Hypergon 22:6; Dagor 1:6,8 / 100; Geodar 7,7/100; Fliegerobjektiv 4,5/21; Epikar 3,7/37; Skopar 4,5/13,5; Kodar 7,9/131; Kodak, Anastigmat 6,3/13; Projektionstriplet 4/38; Radionar 4,5/7.5; Voigtländer 4,5/10; Orikar 3,6/36; Ernoskop 3,2/33,5; Magnar 10:45; Doppelquastigmat 4,5/13,5; Ernostar 2/100; Biotessar 2,2/1,5; Biotessar 2,25/1,5; Tessar 2,7/2,5; Quarzanastigmat 6,3/386; Ernastigmat 6,3/135; Triplet 6,3/13,5; Tessar 4,5/15; Epiotar 3,5/26; Biotessar 2,8/1,7; Geodar 5/21; Biotar 1,4/8,5; Biotar 1,9/2,5; Biotar 1,5/2,5; Weitwinkeldagor 9/10; Trioplar 6,3/135; Biotessar 2,7/4; Kinoteletessar 4/15; Igetar 8,8/9,5; Orthometar 8/13,5; Suchertriplet 2,8/6; William Lee & Kapella 1,8/10; Gallus-Objektiv 8,5/24; Leica-Objektiv 3,5/5; Anastigmat 4,5/10; Triplet 4,5/5; Tessar, Teletessar 850; Anastigmat 2,5/100; Projektionsobjektiv 1,9/10; Mikroprojektionsobjektiv 3,3/5; Tessar, Steoplagmesstessar 8/21; Tessar 3,5/5; Voigtländer 3,5/10; Henon 2/4,5; Geodar 8/13,5; Triplet 4/7,5; Sonnar 4/7,5; Quarzanastigmat 4,5/12; Apochromatclaron 9/18; Sonnar 2,8/5; Sonnar 2/5; Spiegelglastriplet 7,7/10; Tessar 2,8/5; Leitz-Objektiv 2,5/100; Triplet 4/8,0; Sonderobjektiv, MG-Kamera 7,5/9; Messfliegerobjektiv 4,5/25; Pantoskop, Busch 30/206; Orthometar 4,5/21; Sonnar 2/8,5; Tessar 8/2,8; Gramatzki 1,4/10; Meyersatzplasmat 4,5/10; Ernostar 1,4/5; Biotar 1,4/5; Sonnar 1,4/13,5; Biotar 2/5; Biotar 2/4,5; Sonnar 1,4/2,5; Tessar, Teletessar 10/25; Sonnar 1,5/5; Biotar 2/4; Zeiss Ikon 2,8/10; Triplet 3,5/10; Tronnier 3,8/100; Sonnar 2,8/7,6; Minor 1,4/4; Tessar 5/50; Objektiv, Fernobjektiv 8/50; Sonnar 4/13,5; Weitwinkelobjektiv 6/9,5; Kapella 4,5/10; Weitwinkelobjektiv 5,5/10; Feuillet 4/28,3; Schneider 4,5/100; Triplet 3,8/7,5; Tristar 2,8/1,25; Suchertriplet 3,5/7,5; Triplet 4,8/12; Weitwinkelobjektiv 8/3,8; Sonnar 1,2/35; Sonnar, Telesonnar 2,8/1,8; Triotar 5,6/10,5; Epiotar 3,5/43; Biotar 4/10; Voigtländer 2,8/10; Tessar 4,5/50; Biotar 0,85/12; Sonnar 1,5/1,5; Sonnar 2/1; Apo-Planar 9/10,5; Liotar 2/10; Suchertriplet 2,8/7.5; Sonnar 2/8; Triplet 16/21; Sonnar 4/18; Sonnar 4/30; Alinar 1,9/9; Triplet 16/36; Biotessar 2,8/5; Biotar 4/20; Tessar 4,5/25; Tessar 16/21; Weitwinkelobjektiv 6,3/6; Biotessar 2,8/12,4
    voriges Datensatz Anfang der Liste 2 von 2 : Forschungszentrum Als Lesezeichen speichern
    Signatur neu:
    WB 3085
    Herkunft:
    Prüfvorschriften; Prüfvorschriften W
    Aktenplan (1975-1990):
    5.2.1.46. Technische Prüfvorschriften
    Aktentitel:
    Prüfvorschriften für mechanische Komponenten (64) und optische Komponenten (72): Foto
    enthält:
    Qualitätsanforderungen von mechanischen, optischen Komponenten/Teilkomponenten; technische Parameter; Angabe der Prüfmittel und Prüfmethoden; Messbedingungen und -methoden; Funktionsprüfung des Gerätes und deren Zubehörteile; Sauberkeitsvorschriften; Einstell- und Messbereiche festlegen; Temperaturbedingungen; Auswertung von Messergebnissen; Betriebssicherheit, Schutzgüte; Beschreibung, Funktion und Einstellbedingungen der Bedienelemente; Verhalten des Gerätes
    Laufzeit:
    1953 - 1968
    Stichwörter:
    Qualitätssicherung (Foto); Prüfmittel (Foto); Blendendurchmesser; Auflösungsvermögen; Lichthof; Lichtpunkt; Brennweite; Bildgüte (Foto); Verspannung (Deformierung Lichthof); Kälteverhalten; Wärmeverhalten; Kontrastminderung; Springblende; Blendenschließzeit; Lichtdurchlässigkeit; Schlieren; Entfernungsteilung; Bildfeldwinkel; Dauerbelastung, Springblende; Transmissionsgrad; Wärmeverhalten; Kälteverhalten; Entfernungseinstellung; Blendeneinstellung; Druckblende; Dauerbelastung; Drehwinkel; Blendendurchmesser; Farbortlage; Tiefenschärfe
    Geräte:
    Biometar 2,8/120; Pancolar, 2/50; Biometar 2,8/80; R-Sonnar 1,5/50; Cardinar 2,8/85; Cardinar 4/240; Biometar 2,8/55; Biometar 2,8/77; Triplet 2,8/18 mit 8-Kantprisma; Flektar 3,5/75; UV Achromat 4,5/120; Novonar 3,5/50; Dagor 1:6,8 / 180; Tessar 4,5/40
    Institutionen:
    FKon1; ZPrüf (Zentrale Prüfabteilung); PhoPrüf; PhokonEnd; PhoKonTest; SKon; FELFo; QQ


    English Translation of the second result.

    Good luck

    Quality requirements of mechanical, optical components / subcomponents; technical parameters; Specification of test equipment and test methods; Measurement conditions and methods; Functional testing of the device and its accessories; Cleanliness requirements; Set the adjusting and measuring ranges; Temperature conditions; Evaluation of measurement results; Reliability, quality protection; Description, function and setting conditions of the controls; Behavior of the device
    Running time:
    1953 - 1968
    Tags:
    Quality Assurance (photo); Test equipment (photo); Aperture diameter; Resolving power; Atrium; Light spot; Focal length; Image quality (photo); Strain (deformation atrium); Temperature behavior; Thermal behavior; Contrast reduction; Springblende; Aperture closing time; Light transmission; Striae; Distance sharing; Field angle; Continuous load, automatic diaphragm; Transmittance; Thermal behavior; Temperature behavior; Distance setting; Aperture setting; Pressure diaphragm; Continuous load; Angle of rotation; Aperture diameter; Farbortlage; Focus
    Equipment:
    Biometar 2.8 / 120; Pancolar, 2/50; Biometar 2.8 / 80; R-Sonnar 1.5 / 50; Cardinar 2.8 / 85; Cardinar 4/240; Biometar 2.8 / 55; Biometar 2.8 / 77; Triplet 2.8 / 18 with 8-prism; Flektar 3.5 / 75; UV achromat 4.5 / 120; Novonar 3.5 / 50; Dagor 1: 6.8 / 180; Tessar 4.5 / 40
    Institutions:
    FKon1; ZPrüf (Central Inspection Department); PhoPrüf; PhokonEnd; PhoKonTest; Skøn; FELFo; QQ
    ,___,
    [O.o]
    /)__)
    -“–“-

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Lower Earth
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    1,902
    Blog Entries
    2
    Images
    45
    Have you thought about trying it with the missing blade? I had a lens like that, and decided to shoot it anyway. Surprisingly, it worked fine.

  4. #4
    shutterfinger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Mid Peninsula, Ca.
    Shooter
    4x5 Format
    Posts
    760
    Here in the states I used some 1/16 brass rod available at hardware stores and hobby shops, chucked a piece in a Dremel, laid it against a smooth cut flat file, then turned the Dremel on to medium speed and turned the rod down to the diameter needed for the aperture pin then used a cutoff wheel in the Dremel to cut it to length. Make a few extras as those tiny pins have a tendency to jump out of the holding tool when attaching. I soldered the one I made in place.

    You will have to have the aperture separated to install the new blade so why not just use an existing blade as a template?

    1/16=.0625 inch *25.4=1.5875mm
    6 inch stainless steel digital readout calipers are readily available on line from Amazon and Ebay at a low cost and are very handy to have in camera work.

  5. #5
    paul_c5x4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Ye Olde England
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    1,766
    Images
    26
    Quote Originally Posted by Mustafa Umut Sarac View Post
    Contact with Carl Zeiss Archives , they sent me few Dagor diagrams
    I would have thought it unlikely Zeiss would have any engineering drawings with dimensions, but if I get stuck, I'll ask them.


    Quote Originally Posted by momus View Post
    Have you thought about trying it with the missing blade?
    I had used the lens with one blade missing and didn't notice anything amiss. Now that a second blade has been removed, it kinda bugs me and I have a hankering to fix it properly.

    Quote Originally Posted by shutterfinger View Post
    6 inch stainless steel digital readout calipers are readily available on line from Amazon and Ebay at a low cost and are very handy to have in camera work.
    Indeed, and when I need to measure better than +/- 0.02mm, I reach for the digital micrometer (good for +/- 0.002mm). A small lathe is also very useful when it comes to making bits - Already had a go at turning a new pin or three (lost a couple in the swarf), and once I've cleaned off the pip, it should be usable.

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    St Louis
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    741
    Images
    2
    I have lots of shim stock in .002 through .009 if you need some in brass, steel and stainless. I can mail you a piece big enough to make a few. Getting it FLAT after cutting would seem like the hardest part.
    "If its not broken, I can't afford it."

  7. #7
    Mustafa Umut Sarac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    İstanbul - Türkiye
    Shooter
    35mm RF
    Posts
    4,263
    Images
    110
    Quote Originally Posted by trythis View Post
    I have lots of shim stock in .002 through .009 if you need some in brass, steel and stainless. I can mail you a piece big enough to make a few. Getting it FLAT after cutting would seem like the hardest part.
    If I get it right, you would be needed to cut surfaces flat also parallel. I remember engrave with burin videos and sharpening your burin videos at youtube for preparation for Intaglio Printing.

    Burin is sensitive tool and it must be sharp and surfaces must be equal and parallel.

    There are very fine polishing stones and oil and rubbing the surfaces with very careful hand movements may be 3 -4 seconds were enough.

    Metals are hard but very easy hand or machine finish. Even with latest technology and expertise , Patek Phillippe creates final finish with rubbing on grit and finger tip , eye check.
    ,___,
    [O.o]
    /)__)
    -“–“-

  8. #8
    APUGuser19's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    1,140
    I would probably try something like sandwiching the desired shim with coats of super glue and some other shim stock, making the cuts and grinds, and dropping the finished sandwich in acetone or methylene chloride for however long it took for the sandwich to slide apart. As far as the pin, that has been covered.

  9. #9
    paul_c5x4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Ye Olde England
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    1,766
    Images
    26
    I had in mind melting some wax on to a block of aluminium and floating a piece of shim stock on before it cooled down - Got some hard wax from a lapidarist, but if that doesn't work, some shellac or balsam should do the job. Once mounted, I can hopefully cut the profile on a milling machine without too much difficulty.

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Adirondacks
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    3,879
    I made a set of aperture blades for an old Compound shutter, the originals were some sort of composite which disintegrated.
    Having measured the radii, I turned a ring with the appropriate ID and OD, cut segments out of the ring, drilled the segments with holes of the appropriate size and spacing for the pins, and put steady pins in the holes. After rounding the ends and hardening, the segments were used as a filing jig by clamping in a vise. Shim stock was prepared by cutting roughly to shape and drilling holes for the pins, the steady pins of the jig fit through these holes. The pins were made on a lathe and riveted to the blades.

    Someone over at LFF made a set with a laser cutter, it looked like a beautiful job.
    You wanna do it, do it right. ;

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin