Maximar 207/7 9x12 (like Zeiss Ikon)

[jjstafford]

Digging around some more... I have this Maximar 207/7 with F4.5 135mm Tessar in Compur shutter. It's basically the same as the Zeiss Ikon 9x12 plate camera.

You know how compact these are for 9x12 - amazing. It can fit in a generous coat pocket. I'd love to use it so I'd like to find out if they even made individual film holders (not packs) for this model and find a ground-glass back (which does exist).

It would also help to know what film size would the holders. It's confusing when I see 9x12 sometimes described as 4x5". This camera definitely won't fit 4" wide, but will fit on the 5" dimension.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I also have a 2x3" (2 1/4 X 3 1/4) Zeiss Ikon, almost exactly a scaled-down version of the Maximar with ground glass and beautiful individual film holders (and J&C sells the film) Will trade for goodies for this Maximar if they exist.

Can also post a PDF of the Maximar manual if anyone is interested.

Best,
JJ

[Ole]

Film holders are likely to be the classic single-plate metal holders, where you need film sheet adapters unless you want to go for (incredibly expensive) plates. Unfortunately there were several different types of these, and lots of different cameras! Especially the flange bit which fits under the rails is where the variation is critical. The "most common" type is what the Germans call "Millionenfalz" which is what I use on my Voigtländer cameras. That's a thin lip, 3mm wide, along both sides and the bottom. Zeiss Ikon used that for a while, and an entirely different type for a while, and a third type for a while for good measure.

Modern 9x12 holders are the same size as 4x5" holders, which is why many 4x5" cameras are called 9x12 by Germans. 9x12cm used to be more common in parts of Europe than 4x5".

Old plate cameras don't use modern holders, so the correct film size makes a big difference. You need 9x12cm film!

[Whiteymorange]

The plate holders that Ole speaks of come up fairly frequently at camera shows and flee markets where camera dealers and collectors who buy estate lots and old gear dump them, because they either don't know what they are for or just don't want to deal with what they see as an antique format. I've picked up a dozen or so in the last year for a total of about $10. The velvet light trap often needs redoing but that's a small thing. They have all come with film septums in them since they were used by folks who "updated" the camera sometime in the 40's or 50's. Any old camera junkie is likely to have some kicking around or an antique dealer may have some in a box in the back. You have to ask.

Occasionally you see 9 x 12 roll film adapters on ebay. They tend to be expensive and I've never really bought into the idea that it would be any easier than the sheet film.

Good luck with the Maximar! I have a 9 x 12 Rietzschel and it is amazingly small and portable (and tough!) for the negative size. Yankee developing tanks and others still have slots for 9 x 12 film as well! Efke 100 is great in 9 x 12.

Whitey

[Donald Qualls]

Now for the bad news concerning plate holders. First, there are at least a half dozen different, incompatible styles of plate holders -- seemingly, every camera maker had their own as of 1910, and most were carried over through various mergers (with the result that, in the late 1920s, Ziess-Ikon was producing *at least* three, probably four or more different styles of plate holders for cameras still in production).

Your Maximar, BTW, isn't "like" a Zeiss-Ikon -- it *is* a Zeiss-Ikon; that model number is a Ziess-Ikon number applied to the Maximar only after the 1926 merger. As I recall, that model should use the holders I refer to as "thick edge slide in". They'll have an edge flange approximately 3 mm thick, and will measure around 100 mm wide and 145 mm long (not counting the dark slide extension). Very late in the plate camera game (mid-1930s), Ziess-Ikon also made double-sided film holders to fit this mount; they're hardly any thicker than the earlier plate holders and are made to carry film only. I see them from time to time on eBay, and IMO they're worth getting, if you have a camera that they'll fit.

I'll tell you from my experience with a similar vintage Ideal 250/7 that the Tessar will convince you that modern lenses aren't worth the thousands of dollars they fetch, compared to a Tessar that can be had (on a non-working plate camera) for $20. And the old Compur (dial- or rim-set) shutters, though lacking flash synch, are as robust and durable as any piece of pocket-sized clockwork has even been.

I personally recommend Fomapan 100 as an excellent first film for these cameras. It's a bit less money than the Efke, has a harder emulsion that's less prone to scratching, and IMO is a perfectly fine film. I'm on my second box, and I don't shoot anything like as much as I wish I could...

[Whiteymorange]

Now for the bad news concerning plate holders. First, there are at least a half dozen different, incompatible styles of plate holders -- seemingly, every camera maker had their own as of 1910, and most were carried over through various mergers (with the result that, in the late 1920s, Ziess-Ikon was producing *at least* three, probably four or more different styles of plate holders for cameras still in production).

Donald Qualls

Oops! Spoke too quickly, I guess, about the ease with which plate holders may be had. I guess I've been lucky. Funny how the forces that be look out for the ignorant ones sometimes, huh? In 4 separate buys, I've never found any plate holders that didn't fit the Rietzschel. I've found bent and useless ones, but they all fit. Thanks for the added info, DQ.

Whitey

[Donald Qualls]

You're welcome, Whitey. IIRC from the photos, your Reitzschel uses the full-length thin-edge folders, same as a Voigtlander, which were easily the most common; had plate cameras continued for another 10-15 years, we might have seen that style become a world standard (instead, the ones used in the Speed Graphic got that honor).

But I have a Kawee Camera (aka Patent Etui) and a Ziess-Ikon 250/7 Ideal, both of which use proprietary holders of relatively rare type (and different, of course), and a relatively tight budget, so I've had to become knowledgable about plate holders to avoid wasting money buying holders that don't fit. In almost three years, I've finally found two more holders (beyond the three that came with the camera) that fit the Kawee Camera, and have about fifteen that fit the Ideal, but several of the Ideal holders have bad velvet around the dark slide -- double velvet enclosed in a case that appears to be soldered or brazed (or perhaps just crimped in a machine press with several tons of pressure), and I haven't figured how to get into them to replace the velvet yet.

[jjstafford]

Thank you, Ole, Whitey and Donald. So little I know about these things that I thought since I lucked into a complete 3 1/4" x 4 1/4" with film (real film) holders, glass and all that the world was like that. No such luck. I will be patient.

Here we are looking at rumors of the extinction of film cameras, having worked with photography for more or less forty years each, and just now I'm appreciating the loss of this whole technology of the Zeiss folding box cameras with front slide and rise. It is truly humbling.

[Donald Qualls]

Well, you get the same movements plus drop bed and limited tilts with a Speed or Crown, and can use (easier to find) 4x5 film and ANSI holders -- but then, it's been about 35 years since any of those were made, too.

Keep your eyes open on eBay and put up a "looking for" thread in the Classic Cameras forum over at photo.net, and you'll probably find some holders, possibly even with film sheaths (which can be improvised if not present) without waiting too very long.

[jjstafford]

Well, you get the same movements plus drop bed and limited tilts with a Speed or Crown, and can use (easier to find) 4x5 film and ANSI holders -- but then, it's been about 35 years since any of those were made, too.

But those are far, far larger than the camera in question. The whole point of it was its small size.

Until I find (if ever) the right filmholders, I've removed the lens (Tessar 135mm F4.5) and put it on a Printex 4x5 that had a crummy Wollensak.

[Donald Qualls]

Well, that's not a bad thing, either. I've seen a bunch of plate cameras go on eBay for under $50 various times (sometimes a lot under $50), with a Tessar and Compur mounted that, if pulled from the camera and given an easy CLA, would fetch $75 to $150 without the camera dragging along behind. I hate to think of doing that to one of these old beauties, though.

I agree on size -- my Kawee Camera is about the same volume as an ANSI 4x5 film holder, and three plate holders are about that size again; in the dimensions of a Speed with no film holders I can carry my Kawee Camera, five plate holders, and a light meter. OTOH, I don't have a fast shutter (250 top speed), and I can't just try another film holder to see if a light leak is in the holder or the camera. Still pretty cool using a 70 year old camera that puts large format in a coat pocket, though.