Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 70,521   Posts: 1,543,798   Online: 801
      
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 19 of 19
  1. #11

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Omaha, Nebraska
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    2,512
    Images
    4
    Quote Originally Posted by Curt
    Go for it, make your own standards, you not going to buy any other holders anyway so "standards" are what you say they are.
    This is the simple thing to do if you are just making them for yourself. Just make sure the T-dimension is the same for holder and GG.

    But if you want to make them for others you need the dimensions that are already out there.
    "Fundamentally I think we need to rediscover a non-ironic world"
    Robert Adams

  2. #12

    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Southern NJ
    Shooter
    8x10 Format
    Posts
    325
    Images
    12
    Quote Originally Posted by Curt
    BTW, what film are you going to shoot and what are you going to enlarge on?
    Or do you have a supply of Azo which is no longer available?
    Curt,

    Azo is not the only paper that you can print a ULF negative on.
    SOME (YMYV) don't even think its the best paper to print with, but it does have a cult following.

    Did you every think that maybe he wants to make big print with another printing process?
    George Losse
    www.georgelosse.com

  3. #13

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Greenville, SC
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    4,813
    Images
    5
    I have not seen that advertisement, but if it says exactly that and no more it is misleading. S&S holders are made to ANSI standards if such a standard exists for the format. There is an ANSI standard for 11X14 and 14X17, but not for any of the other ULF sizes. So we make 11X14 and 14X17 to ANSI standards, and all others to some other dimension, which may or may not be the same as Lotus and AWB.

    If you go to the Canham web site you will find a link to ULF film holder specifications. All of our holders, with the exception of 7X17 and 12X20, are made to the Canham dimensions. In 7X17 and 12X20 we actually make two different sizes, one size in cherry that fits most older Korona cameras, and another size in walnut to the Canham dimensions. We may eventually change to the Canham dimensions for the cherry holders as well, but for the time being we plan to continue making both sizes.

    Can you make your own film holders? Sure, but it requires a fairly high level of craftmanship and there are not only important design considerations but you will also have to locate sources for the material, i.e. aged wood of the right type, appropriate material for the septum and dark slides, and then there is the baffle.

    Sandy






    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Chinn
    There are also standards for 14x17. Here is link to "known" standards.

    http://home.earthlink.net/~eahoo/filmhold.html

    It does say for a complete list of film holder specs pay the fee and subscribe. I never did that because I have gone by what others have said that no standards exist for banquet formats.

    The advertisement in View Camera Mag for Quality Camera Company says that the S&S holders are built to ANSI standards and lists 10x12, 11x14, 7x17, 8x20, 14x17 and 12x20 sizes. So maybe standards exist or they are stretching the truth a wee bit.

  4. #14
    Monophoto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Saratoga Springs, NY
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,691
    Images
    44
    Quote Originally Posted by barryjyoung
    I tried to find the ANSI standard or a MIL Spec for film holders but they all seem to be cancelled.
    Barry has raised an interesting question about the validity of standards.

    The American National Standards Institute doesn't really develop standards. Instead, it is a body that is responsible for a standardization process that is followed by more parochial industry groups that actually develop standards on a concensus basis. Those standards represent the concensus agreement of participants in the respective ndustries of the standard-making groups. ANSI has a rule that requires that standards be either revised or reaffirmed avery five years; a standard that is neither revised or reaffirmed loses its status as an ANSI standard. This rule is intended to keep standards current with evolving technology.

    But recognize that an "ANSI standard" is merely a formalized agreement within an industry that certain things will be done in a uniform manner. The curious thing is that the fact that a standard has lost its official recognition as an ANSI standard does not necessarily mean that the industry concensus no longer exists. In fact, if the industry continues to adhere to the agreements embodied in the, the standard by default remains in effect even though it doesn't have ANSI's imprimatur.

    I wonder if this is one of those situations in which the body that originally formulated the standard on film holder dimensions either no longer exists, or no longer cares about film holder dimensions. I don't believe that there has been a fundamental change in the applicable technology since the point when the industry shifted from plates to film.

    Under Roberts Rules of Order, a quorum must be present before business can be conducted. But there is another rule that says that a quorum is presumed to be present until someone questions whether a quorum is present. Once the question has been asked, then it is necessary to take a count, and if the count determines that there is no quorum, then business cannot be conducte. The lesson is - - - don't ask if there is a quorum.

    So unless and until someone questions the existence of a standard on film holder dimensions, and more importantly, until someone proposes a set of dimensions that differ from those in the standard, the standard really continues to be in effect, even though it may no longer be listed in the ANSI catalog.

  5. #15

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Greenville, SC
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    4,813
    Images
    5
    I have a copy of the ANSI standards for film holders. It is ANSI PHE.108-1988 and is a revision of ANSI PH#.26-1951. The formats covered are 2X3, 3X4, 4X5, 5X7, 8X10, 11X14 and 14X17.

    There never were any ANSI standards for formats such as 6.5X8.5, 5X12, 7X11, 7X17, 8X20, 12X20, 16X20 and 20X24. The closest you can come to standards for these formats is that of the manufacturer, say Eastman, Korona or F&S. However, there are no absolutes, and if you were to acquire randomly ten 7X17" Korona holders chances are good that no two of them would have the exact same dimensions.

    Sandy


    Quote Originally Posted by barryjyoung
    OK, let's go about this the right way. If you are going to make standardized film holders it is best to start with the standard from the standards organization that standardizes them. I have never typed "standard" so many times in one sentence before. I tried to find the ANSI standard or a MIL Spec for film holders but they all seem to be cancelled. Does anyone posess these standards? I would be happy to pay for them.

    Thank you

    Barry Young
    cameramaker.com
    Last edited by sanking; 12-03-2005 at 05:52 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  6. #16
    Dave Wooten's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Vegas/mysterious mohave co. az, Big Pine Key Fla.
    Shooter
    ULarge Format
    Posts
    2,714
    Images
    20
    Schwin,

    Honestly what I would do (if I had the skills to build a respectable large format camera-and I do not!) is purchase a holder from S and S and build my camera back around that...

    The holders, to do correctly IMHO are so much more difficult than the camera itself....there must be 100 or 200 seperate operations to make one, then you split some, chip some etc....

    I feel a well made film holder is definately worth the investment.....film is expensive the set up and the shoot justifies the expense and the elimination of a very important variable....there are many threads bemoaning the fact of soft negs etc. only to find the holder is not correct....

    Just a thought.,,

    Dave in Vegas

  7. #17
    barryjyoung's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Near Seattle WA, USA
    Shooter
    ULarge Format
    Posts
    411
    Images
    2
    Thanks for the response Jim:

    I have run some rough preliminary numbers. In order to make holders efficiently, I would have to make them in lots of 100 or more. I have no plans to make any holders to fit a specific camera at all. I think I will probably have to buy holders from S&S and AWB to measure them. The problem is that when you try to reverse engineer something like that, you end up not knowing precisely what the guy who made it had in mind. Maybe it would be best to simply bite the bullet and buy holders. The investment in engineering and materials is large. I am just not sure yet. My plate is pretty full considering I am working at a real job at least 12 hours a day 5 days a week.

    Barry Young
    cameramaker.com



    [QUOTE=
    As far as older cameras, your best bet would be have the owner either send you a film holder they use or the camera to ensure a proper fit. other wise you might spend a lot of time replacing ill fitting holders.[/QUOTE]
    Barry Young
    Young Camera Company

  8. #18
    barryjyoung's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Near Seattle WA, USA
    Shooter
    ULarge Format
    Posts
    411
    Images
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Chinn
    There are also standards for 14x17. Here is link to "known" standards.

    .

    That helps a lot Jim, thank you.

    Barry Young
    Barry Young
    Young Camera Company

  9. #19
    barryjyoung's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Near Seattle WA, USA
    Shooter
    ULarge Format
    Posts
    411
    Images
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by sanking
    I have a copy of the ANSI standards for film holders. It is ANSI PHE.108-1988 and is a revision of ANSI PH#.26-1951. The formats covered are 2X3, 3X4, 4X5, 5X7, 8X10, 11X14 and 14X17.

    There never were any ANSI standards for formats such as 6.5X8.5, 5X12, 7X11, 7X17, 8X20, 12X20, 16X20 and 20X24. The closest you can come to standards for these formats is that of the manufacturer, say Eastman, Korona or F&S. However, there are no absolutes, and if you were to acquire randomly ten 7X17" Korona holders chances are good that no two of them would have the exact same dimensions.

    Sandy
    I completely agree about variation among film holders, been there done that. Fasteners are about the most standardized things we have, but if you measure enough of them critically, you will find that they are all over the place. I MAY make film holders to fit cameras I produce, but I am never going to produce film holders for other cameras. The slight variations would make me pull out what little hair I have left.

    Thanks for the ANSI Standard Numbers Sandy.

    Barry Young
    cameramaker.com
    Barry Young
    Young Camera Company

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin