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  1. #11

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    So mark, what are the brand names of some of these cold animal hide glues, and where would one be able to find them?

    K.

  2. #12

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    Liquid Hide Glue

    Hi again. Fortunately, since a practical cold hide glue formulation was arrived at a few years back it has become a lot easier to get. I did a quick web search and a lot of hits came up. At least one of the big mail order wood working type stores "Woodcraft" carries it. You will love this as it comes under the heading of "if you can't beat them join them" but Titebond markets a liquid hide glue and I bet this is the brand you will likely find.

    I have used for some years Franklin's hide glue but I am not sure they haven't been bought out by someone within the last year or so and I am in Canada. I know that Woodcraft services the US.

    By the way, HOT hide glue is definetly not for the faint of heart and I really don't recommend it unless you are willing to put in an apprenticeship. However, the cold liquid hide glue is way, way much easier to use and has the very much added feature that it is extremely tacky. Take a drop between finger and thumb, press and then separate, you will feel and hear the tack. The construction type PVA's are very slippery and this often causes joints to slide during clamping up.

    Oh, yes, at Woodcraft, the cost of a 16 oz bottle iw $9.99 US. I have seen a 8 oz size going for approximately half of that price.

    If I haven't caused enough consternation and there are more questions email me and I will try to help.

    Regards

    Mark MacKenzie
    Mark MacKenzie, M.A.C.
    Art Conservator
    Past Ink Publishing
    Saskatoon, Saskatchewan
    S7H 2S6

  3. #13
    smieglitz's Avatar
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    A couple weeks ago I started designing a quarter-plate wetplate view camera to be made from lacewood. Lacewood is a nicely figured sort of orange-red wood that exhibits kind of a chatoyancy (sort of sparkles as light hits it from different angles).

    Well, as the project evolved and I made the bellows, I ended up eventually choosing a shiny, copper-colored spandex material (sort of sparkles as light hits it from different angles) for the outer layer. I thought it looked best from the several materials I contemplated (faux crocodile leather, some burgundy suedes, silks, etc.).

    So now I've obtained some copper round stock to make the focusing knobs and tonight a metalsmithing friend lent me a plating machine so I can copperplate the gear rack and pinions. Apparently, this thing is evolving into a copper camera. (I haven't decided whether or not to let the copper pieces oxidize though.)

    For the joints on the extension bed the instructor in my adult ed woodworking class suggested using simple butt joints with copper dowels and I thought that might actually look cool. I may also make and use a few copper splines in this project. He suggested using crazy glue to fix the copper dowels and wood together.

    Y'all think that might work or would something like hide glue also bond these dissimilar materials together?

    Joe

  4. #14

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    Adhering copper camera parts

    Whew, I really want to see what you have when you are finished it sounds like an "Art Nouveau" dream.

    Hide glue is not for your project as it really doesn't shine when adhering metals. Unless the data sheet for your cyanoacrylate adhesive talks about a truly permanent capability I would be careful of using it here. They actually don't stand up to humidity and "working". They often fail in several years without notice or it could stand up longer.

    You might be better off with an epoxy. The "Gorilla Glue" mentioned previously is I believe some sort of polyurethane I haven't read up on it for some time but it has garnered a good reputation for long lived extremely strong joints. It may be best overall for this use.

    Hide glue would stick the copper bits down but I am afraid they would not be shock resistant.

    Regards

    Mark MacKenzie
    Mark MacKenzie, M.A.C.
    Art Conservator
    Past Ink Publishing
    Saskatoon, Saskatchewan
    S7H 2S6

  5. #15
    jeroldharter's Avatar
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    I have no expertise whatsoever. Nevertheless, I would worry that copper dowels would be problematic because of contraction and expansion with temperature fluctuations. The metal would move while the wood wouldn't.
    Jerold Harter MD

  6. #16
    smieglitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeroldharter
    I have no expertise whatsoever. Nevertheless, I would worry that copper dowels would be problematic because of contraction and expansion with temperature fluctuations. The metal would move while the wood wouldn't.
    Hmmm. Never thought of that. I'm not sure but suspect humidity and the wood expanding/contracting more than the metal might be equally an issue.

    Joe

  7. #17
    MenacingTourist's Avatar
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    I'd like to jump in and second everything Mark has said. I've been a woodworker for a long time and everything I've read about archival restoration praises hide glue. I'd also like to point out that if you need to fill gaps do not use gorilla glue. It's purpose is as an adhiesive and will not span a gap with any sort of strength causing your joint will fail. I would recommend epoxy to fill gaps.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by egdinger
    I don't think your post was inflamitory in the least, and your position gives you some authority on the subject. I just used elemers wood glue. I don't think it is any kind of animal hide glue. But I wasn't doing a proper restoration on this camera, just something for fun.

    Problem is, one of the joints didn't go back togeather right and now it has light leaks, so what can I use from the inside to block the light?
    A quick and direct answer to your question: Black Liquitex acrylic paint, medium viscosity. These come in very small plastic containers (about 200ml) from art or hobby stores. I use the "Carbon Black" version for a zillion photo-related applications, including restoration projects. Straight from the container, it is viscuous enough to hold its place in confined spaces, but "wet enough" to help fill gaps where it counts. Tilt or position the workpiece so that the Liquitex can seep into the gap correctly. I hope this helps.

  9. #19

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    I fully agree with Mark and MenacingTourist. The other problem with polyurethane glues is the expansion when they set. They can exert quite a bit of force and move pieces while setting up.

    My two favorite glues are the Titebond liquid hide glue for all the reasons above. And for other reasons, especially emergency repairs is the Hy-pur hot melt polyurethane glue gun. It's a Titebond product also. The glue does expand while setting but seems much stronger than the room temp glues like Gorilla. I've used it on things like chair legs that have refused any attempts made with hide glue or other wood glues.

    Never use Crazy glues on wood. It won't bond and it's far too brittle. Wood flexes and the glue has to also. Hide glue may not seem to flex, but does in the context of wood joints.

    I would also be suspect of metal dowels in wood. The wood would expand/contract with humidity and the metal with heat/cold. What's the chance of them expanding/contracting together? Use good hardwood dowels...

  10. #20

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    When I was into organ restauration, I used glue made from animal bones.
    I bought bulk material from a factory nearby where animal remains are processed.
    Mixed it up into hot water until I got a nice paste.

    Glue like this has been used for centuries and is very strong. If you ever have to separate pieces, just heat it with a hot air dryer and take the pieces apart without risk of damaging box joints
    It's perfect for glueing wood on wood & wood on leather.

    [edit] OK... it's called hide glue in English, I just found out about that and we're talking about the same thing. (I always used French literature)

    G

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