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  1. #31

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    FrankR, freygr, NOLARon, Jack Green, and any other interested parties, time to start spreading the word on Panoram disassembly and repair.

    Since 2 or 3 of you have removed and worked on the mechanism in your Panorams within the past week or so, tell us how you did it, what problems you had removing it, lessons learned, etc. I'm a bit behind, but I have a No. 4 "beater" coming in around Monday or Tuesday, and I plan to tear right into it, no holds barred.

    Who is going first? Tell us your story.

    EuGene
    Last edited by B&Jdude; 09-20-2008 at 08:34 PM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: added missing letters

  2. #32

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    NOLARon, I've been watching for you and Frank R. to come on this Panoram Overhaul thread to discuss repair techniques, but haven't seen you on here for a while. Since both of you have managed to disassemble the mechanism on your Panorams, it would be great to discuss it and how it is done on this thread.

    I, too, have a problem with the shutter release on the beater 4D that I just got in the mail yesterday. It is jamming the lens so that it won't swing and the release button just barely moves downward when you press it . . . almost like it is already at the bottom of its travel.

    Of course, I'm still not understanding how you got those 4 screws out that hold the metal mechanism plate (#65 in the early patent and #31 in the later one) in place. Do you have a super stubby screwdriver that you can get up inside the camera? Or a flexible shaft or U-joint screwdriver? I haven't been able to figure out how to get to those screws. I guess this is another thing we should discuss on this thread, as I'm sure others are equally confused about how to get the mechanism plate out of the camera.

    EuGene

  3. #33

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    Folks, I just got the word on another patent related to the Panoram. It is #1,023,933, entitled "Film Winding Key For Cameras", dated Apr. 23, 1912. It shows a rather complex winding mechanism with an anti-backlash system consting of 3 little metal balls and a cam they they jam to prevent backward turning of the winder. The important thing about this is by knowing how this mechanism is built, one won't open it up blindly, only to watch the tiny balls and their tensioning springs go flying about the room, never to be found.

    There is nothing specific to the Panoram in this design, so this winding mechanism was probably used on other Kodak cameras as well.

    So, we now have a 3rd patent in our file on the Kodak Panorams. For late comers to this thread, the first 2 patents, covering the basic camera and the swing lens mechanism are #689,159 (Dec 17, 1901) and #693,583 (Feb 18, 1902).
    Last edited by B&Jdude; 09-23-2008 at 09:14 AM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: Added info on the other patents

  4. #34

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    I am pasting over the contents of some PM exchanges for other peoples benefit.

    Here's the latest:


    Quote Originally Posted by B&Jdude
    Alright! That's progress! You gotta fill me in on the steps you took, in order, to disassemble that thing. Maybe mail me some pix or sketches of the process.

    Of course I have all sorts of questions:

    How did you get those two screws loose inside the camera - a short, stubby screw driver or one with a flexible shaft? Or, was the plate held by 2 screws that were on the top under the leather, one on each side of the cocking leaver?

    Did you take out the 10 screws on front and remove the front plate?

    Was there any difficulty in taking the lens shaft and hood loose or is it just a simple matter of removeing (or loosening) the screw on the bottom of the shaft and removing the tensioning lever on the top of the camera. Does the shaft juse come out then (once you have either removed the lens from the bellows of brought the bellows out with the lens and shaft?

    I could go on and on, but I'll spare you. Anyhoo, I bought a dead 4C from Bill McBride, and that will provide me with a camera on which I can practice disassembly. Still, I'll gladly take any info and advice I can get to help me to minimize mistakes.

    I have my ball peen hammer, vice grips, skil saw, porta-power, and other tools ready to do some camera repairs!!

    EuGene
    Well, the key was I had a torn bellows so I was able to get some access from the front (maybe removing the bellows first on your camera would give you access). I also used a needle nosed pliers to loosen one wood screw I could not reach with the screw driver.

    I took off the top tensioning lever first, then the screws for the top plate and then the screws at the bottom of the shaft. I then had to take off the rear lens hood. After some wiggling the bottom plate and the top plate came out. Pretty straight forward. The shaft and lens are dangling from the leather.

    I did not remove the front 10 screws. I tried months age but stopped when it became difficult to get all of them out. Now I have more incentive; I need to find a piece of leather to replace the bellows.
    "There are two ways to avoid most trouble in life: live below your means... and within your seams."

  5. #35

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    Here is some more pasted over; this exchange actually occurred before the previous post:

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank R
    Even though I had a lot to do I disassembled the camera yesterday. I studied those drawings and read the text too. The top plate you mentioned was only being held in by two of the four screws. After I pulled out the mechanism ( I had to take off the inner hood and the lens shaft too) I did not find anything broken. I think the missing screws caused a lack of tension on the shutter release spring arm (part 74). I think it got bent down a bit by too much pressure also. I may be able to bend it back a bit and reinstall the whole plate with all four screws; that should get it to work. The biggest repair will be the need for an entire new bellows.
    "There are two ways to avoid most trouble in life: live below your means... and within your seams."

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by B&Jdude View Post
    Folks, I just got the word on another patent related to the Panoram. It is #1,023,933, entitled "Film Winding Key For Cameras", dated Apr. 23, 1912. It shows a rather complex winding mechanism with an anti-backlash system consting of 3 little metal balls and a cam they they jam to prevent backward turning of the winder. The important thing about this is by knowing how this mechanism is built, one won't open it up blindly, only to watch the tiny balls and their tensioning springs go flying about the room, never to be found.

    There is nothing specific to the Panoram in this design, so this winding mechanism was probably used on other Kodak cameras as well.

    So, we now have a 3rd patent in our file on the Kodak Panorams. For late comers to this thread, the first 2 patents, covering the basic camera and the swing lens mechanism are #689,159 (Dec 17, 1901) and #693,583 (Feb 18, 1902).
    My take up knob does work in only one direction. I have no plans to disassemble it; it seems to work fine.
    "There are two ways to avoid most trouble in life: live below your means... and within your seams."

  7. #37

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    Thanks, Frank, for dragging that stuff over here where everyone can read it. There is definitely some good disassembly info that I will use this weekend when I tackle the "beater" 4C. I'm gonna tear it down, play with the pieces, put it back together, tear it down, play with the pieces, put it . . . ad nausem. I want to do it enough that I learn how to do it in my sleep.

    Now, that old dog has a winder that is stuck tight and I don't want to try to force it lest I destroy same. Therefore I plan to completely disassemble the winder, clean all the parts, lube as needed, and reassemble it. I don't know if it is the new type winder (see patent #1,023,933) with the tiny balls & springs, but just to be safe, I will take it apart as carefully as 2 porcupines making love!

    As for the bellows, I am going to try making one with a piece of chamois leather . . . it is super soft and flexible (about like silk) and should dye easily to a dark brown or black.

    I need to track down NOLARon and get him to move his PM's over here, as he just took his Panoram apart and has a bunch of ideas and lessons learned, too.

    In the meantime, there are always Panorams for sale on FleaBay (3 on there today) . . . sometimes they are misplaced as "panorama" or "panoramic", so don't look for them only by searching for "panoram".

    EuGene

  8. #38

  9. #39

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    WOW! Nice list of leather sources, Gordon. Do you (or anyone else on here) have any ideas on which leathers, besides chamois, is soft and flexible enough to make good Panoram bellows? What about dying it? What about sealing pores to make the bellows light tight . . . and without making the bellows stiff?

    By the way, is Tandy still around?

  10. #40

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    HOLY SMOKES! Panorams are falling from the sky! A certain auction site just listed a 4th Panoram, another No. 1D (the other 1D is listed as a Panorama). That make 2 1D's, a 3A, and a 4C all listed at the same time! Is the economy getting bad enough that camera collectors are starving and need quick cash??

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