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  1. #41

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    Panoram models

    Does anyone know the distinctions between the various models? I know that the numbers indicate differences in format size but what about the letters. Presumably they indicate chronology of production but how do you tell which is which (my no1 seems to have no markings) and what is different as the chronology progresses?
    Jack

  2. #42

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    Jack:

    The No 4 came out first, in 1899, used type 103 film, and had no door on the front, then they added the door in 1900, but still called it a No. 4 with no letter. Also in 1900 the No 1, with no letter, came out using 105 film . . . 105 was the same size as 120 film, but had smaller holes in the spools, which is why 120 film spools are a bit wobbly in these cameras. Both models opened for film loading and unloading by splitting the case into 2 pieces along a curved joint. Both the early #1 and #4 had Rapid Rectilinear lens as standard equipment, but some could be special ordered with early Goerz pre-Dagor lenses.

    The Panarams went through B and C versions which were substantially the same as the original except the lens was changed to a meniscus lens and various other minor changes such as adding 3 metal plates on the sides of the film track to help keep the film from jumping out of the track, placement of the bubble level, etc.

    Then, somewhere in the 1920's the D version came out which dispensed with the 2 piace case in favor of a case which opened by the back hinging downward and the sides swinging outward which exposed the insides for film loading and unloading (on the film winder side, the carrying strap had to be unclipped from the top of the camera so that side could swing open).

    There were variations in the #1 & #4 D versions, as well. Some had two levels and tripod mounting threads, on on top and one on the side, so the camera could take horizontal or vertical (such as of a waterfall or tall building) shots. Some had a gear-ratchet speed control mechanism located on the bottom of the swivel lens shaft.

    Lastly, near the end of Panoram production, the 3A model (the only Panoram using the A letter designation) was produced for about 2 years between 1926 - 1928. It was similar to the #1D & #4D except that it used type 122 film and many (if not all) had a 2 position speed changing lever separate from the tensioning lever.

    Some of the other folks on here may have more specifics to add, especially dates/years regarding when these various iterations in the Panoram cameras occurred.

    EuGene

  3. #43

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    P.S. Actually the metal film guide plates began to be put on some of the cameras late in the original version production, but were then used consistently on the B & C versions. They weren't needed with the D versions as the fixed top and bottom of the cameras served to hold the film in place.

    EuGene
    Last edited by B&Jdude; 09-24-2008 at 05:30 PM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: added missing words

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by B&Jdude View Post
    WOW! Nice list of leather sources, Gordon. Do you (or anyone else on here) have any ideas on which leathers, besides chamois, is soft and flexible enough to make good Panoram bellows? What about dying it? What about sealing pores to make the bellows light tight . . . and without making the bellows stiff?

    By the way, is Tandy still around?
    Columbia Organ Works, Inc. has the best choices of leathers for making leather bellows, and I would thing that you would measure the thickness of the old leather to make sure you order the same thickness. The XXX Extra Thin weight leather is only .005 - .007" (0.18mm) thick and other leathers are .030 to .050 inch thick (.762-1.27 mm) or even thicker.

    Link to Tandy Leather: http://www.tandyleatherfactory.com/
    It's not the camera......

  5. #45

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    I remember from many years ago helping a friend up in Virginia make a leather bellows, and he showed me some different types of thin and very flexible leather. He had me to hold them up to the light, and you could really tell the difference between the density and size of the pores in some of the leathers.

    He selected a piece that, although it had more pores per sq. in. that many of the others, they were much smaller and he said they would be easier to seal. He rubbed the leather with something that had black dye added which treated the leather, sealed the pores, and dyed it, all in one operation, and it had no effect on the feel or flexibility of the leather. He said that over time the leather might begin to leak light as it wears on the corners and folds in the bellows, but it will never leak through the pores as they were permanently sealed.

    I have some really nice chamois (Kodak Photo Chamois) that I want to use, but need to get some of that leather sealing & dying stuff that leather working folks use. I don't know what it is called and where to get it. Can anyone help?

  6. #46

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    Thanks for the clarification on models EuGene. I guess that my no 1 is a D version. It has doors. For dyeing leather I have used Feibings (sp?) black leather dye. It does come in other colors. It seems to work pretty well for touching up scuffs on leather coverings of Graphlexes, folders, etc. It does a good on the finger tips as well. I'm not sure of how well it seals. I found it at a shoe repair shop.

    Jack

  7. #47

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    Jack:

    Appreciate the info on leather dye . . . now to find out the best way to seal the pores.

    Kodak had a tendency to put various modifications on cameras almost at random, it seems. It would be no surprise to me to find a C version with doors or a D with a split case. I have an original with a high serial # and no metal film guides and another with a low # that has them. That 1D that just sold today on Flea Bay had a T-shaped level (like the one generally used on the short-lived model 3A) rather than the usual bulls-eye style level, and no evidence on the camera top that a bulls-eye had ever been on there.

    Anyhoo, the version normally is shown on the inside of the door, but then Kodak wasn't always consistent there either. They might have stamped it with something like:

    No. 1D Kodak Panoram

    or

    No. 1 Kodak Panoram
    Model D

    or

    [insert any conceivable variation]

    Then, there is always the possibility that the camera was repaired somewhere in its 80+ year life with its damaged door having been replaced with one cannibalized from a junker.

    EuGene
    Last edited by B&Jdude; 09-25-2008 at 10:30 AM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: added s missing sentence

  8. #48

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    The "bellows" on the Panorams are much simpler than a typical folded bellows. They are mostly just a flat piece of leather with a hole for the lens.

    I was thinking I could buy a small piece somewhere, I only need a piece that is 4 inches by 6 inches. Before I buy though, I will remove the existing bellows and fold it out flat to get actual dimensions and pattern.

    The leather covering my wreck of a camera was flaking off in large pieces. I stripped off most of it. The cherry wood body underneath looks really nice. I will seal it with varnish after the cleanup. A nice black bellows from a nice premium peice of leather will add a nice touch. That, and polishing all of the hardware.

    Sounds like a nice winter project.
    "There are two ways to avoid most trouble in life: live below your means... and within your seams."

  9. #49

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    Frank, I was thinking the same thing about my No. 1 Original version. The leather is already gone from the front and 1/4" to 1/2" pieces are gone from all the corners. Since the remaining leather is dried, cracked, and even curling up in some places, I might as well help the rest of it to come off, then varnish it like yours.

    I will need to use some plastic rubber or something similar on the inside to seal the corners, because with the leather off the camera, the corners will usually not be light tight.

    I have that nice soft & supple piece of Kodak chamois that I might use to cut out a new "bellows" for the camera. I can dye it a nice black with some of that shoe dye that Jack mentioned in his earlier post, but I do need to check with some leather working folks to find out the best way to seal the pores without stiffening the chamois. I can hold the untreated chamois up to the light and see hundreds of tiny pores.

    I haven't seen NOLARon on here since last Saturday, but when he does come in, I think he had a few ideas on making Panoram bellows. He has been working on his mechanism, too, so we might get some more good ideas there as well.

    EuGene
    Last edited by B&Jdude; 09-26-2008 at 02:34 PM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: fixxed missing word & a few letters

  10. #50

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    I have some chamois but I dont care for the rough texture. It is such a small piece, and I bought the wreck for about $4, that I think I will splurge on a nice piece of leather.
    "There are two ways to avoid most trouble in life: live below your means... and within your seams."



 

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