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  1. #11
    MattKing's Avatar
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    I think Woody Allen has used this technique in some of his movies.

    Generally when the shot includes two people talking to each other. Some times when they are both on the telephone.

    But can I point you to an example?
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  2. #12
    Diapositivo's Avatar
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    I can see the problem from a strictly photographic / aesthetic point of view.

    Imagine his first success, Battleship Potëmkin, a silent movie, in a famous sequence you see the soldiers shooting on the crowd on the giant staircase, and this requires an horizontal framing. Then a pram begins rolling down the stairs, and a mother (in quite bad a shape) looks in horror. The mother would much better work with a vertical or square frame, but the frame is rectangular, so that there is some space on the sides where disturbing elements might detract from the visual message.
    A director will probably try to fill this space with something neutral or modify the scene (closing more on the face) so that it works with the horizontal frame and without distraction, (the mother, I go by memory, has a dark scarf around her shoulders so that the face is highlighted) but it's a constant "work" you have to do in cinema, that you don't do in photography, to eliminate those unwanted disturbing elements from the frame.
    In photography you just cut the frame according to what the subject dictates. In cinema you have to "work-around" this problem which, I suppose, is always in the mind of the director.
    Eisenstein need was probably quite widely-felt in an epoch, in the infancy of cinema, when people probably still thought a lot in photographic terms. The fact that cinema was non-talking probably added importance to the framing, as the only message arriving to the spectator is a visual one.
    Last edited by Diapositivo; 08-03-2011 at 05:18 PM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: proper wording
    Fabrizio Ruggeri fine art photography site: http://fabrizio-ruggeri.artistwebsites.com
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  3. #13
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    Interesting perspective Fabrizio.

    Today, perhaps we are coming back to this impasse of motion-pictures/photography, wherein DSLRs are capable of movie-quality capture. With "orientation sensors" (??), like those found in iPhones, perhaps these cameras can autonomosly create a dynamic frame and Eisenstein's dream will become a reality.

    However, letterbox television formats put us farther from that aim.
    If you are the big tree, we are the small axe

  4. #14
    Mustafa Umut Sarac's Avatar
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    I have a idea , At 1920s , when there was no money to buy newfresh film , many directors were experimenting montage ideas with finished films.
    Now all classical films are available at web and montage softwares are free also.
    My university friend - I introduced him to photography, architecture, sculpture - became on of the worlds best vj and he completes videos with television recordings.
    He is an nuclear engineer , architecture diplomas from major universities and cinema mba. He plays chess blindfolded.
    If you have a will to make an art , everything is at internet. What about youtube , extract the videos from site and make your movie.

  5. #15
    Nicholas Lindan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ross Chambers View Post
    Eisenstein was working in a time of extensive experimentation, some of which worked, some not
    Rodchenko http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Rodchenko was hauled up before a Peoples' Revolutionary Council and accused of making photographs that were 'formalistic' another wiki article, and good for a laugh and thus 'derivative' of the works of decadent Western photographers. At his hearing it was revealed that western photographers had also taken pictures of trumpet players from below (along with being a very unflattering angle) and pictures of patterns of apartment balconies: for these sins he fell from the Party's grace.

    Eisenstein was probably trying to avoid the same fate. If variable framing didn't work he might have tried projecting every other reel upside-down (though that would have been derivative of my High School's film club).
    Last edited by Nicholas Lindan; 08-03-2011 at 03:33 PM. Click to view previous post history.
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  6. #16
    Mustafa Umut Sarac's Avatar
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    You dont know anything about him , watch porn at your high school film club. Dont believe anything at wiki.

  7. #17
    MDR
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    The British Director Glenn H. Alvey Jr made a short Scifi Movie

    ,with title the door in the wall, using the dynamic frame (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0302508/)
    here a link to the movie trailer:http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=81693
    With the advance of digital cinema projection it should be be possible to use the dynamic frame more often, no constant change of gates necessary. An analogue way would be to black out the unwanted parts of the image during the printing process. I sincerely doubt that the movie going public would accept the constant change of the aspect ratio but from a purely visual point of view the dynamic frame would be an interesting tool for the director and cinematographer.

  8. #18
    MDR
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    Eisenstein called it the Dynamic Square, square beeing the white cinema screen

    Some of his movies are available for download at the internet Archive: http://www.archive.org/search.php?qu...i%20eisenstein
    and I agree with Umut Eisenstein was a Genius and influenced Filmmaking and Filmmakers like no other Director except for maybe D.W. Griffith.
    And Mr. Lindan Eisenstein wrote the Dynamic Square during his stay in Mexico in 1931, if he had been pressured by Stalin at this time he would never have returned to the Soviet Union. He did get into troubles with Stalin in 1944 for his portrayal of Ivan the terrible (part 2) who had a strong resemblance to Stalin not in looks but in actions.

  9. #19

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    the dadaists, russian constructivists, surrealists and bauhaus filmmakers
    did this sort of thing all the time.
    it was revolutionary and a direct response to what was going on in the world.

    these days the world is vastly different.
    that sort of thing tends to be too "artsy" for the general public
    who like everything to be straightforward with no thinking involved.
    translating a dynamic image and montage imagery requires
    the viewer to think, not be spoon fed ...

  10. #20

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    This "dynamic frame" is often used in commercial films, frequently but not always in combination with a split screen where multiple scenes play at the same time. There was a quite famous scene in "The Thomas Crown Affair" (the McQueen/Dunaway version) with very complex optical printing effects work moving frames of images all over the screen. I have also seen it used frequently where a modern aspect ratio is mixed with the old 1.33:1 ratio representing an older time and a modern wide screen ratio of 1.85 or 2.35:1 represents present day.

    No doubt Eisenstein had big ideas that help define cinema as we know it today. We see his theory and practice of editing in use just about anytime we watch moving picures. The dynamic frame is used sometimes as a useful effect. I think it would distract from the story if used too much.

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