Building a film holder...

[Rob Vinnedge]

Wouldn't it make sense, since there are so few people making the holders, to organize and agree on a standard size holder for each format?

Greg,

There has been a lot of discussion about the need for film holder standards on the two forums, including a thread, "ULF film holder standards", in the FEEDBACK and DISCUSSION category on this forum. It was my suggestion that we use Sandy King's specifications, which he was generous enough to post in that thread. Another contributor offered a schematic as a reference tool. Sandy, AWB, and Canham seem to be the the leaders in standardization at the moment, with Lotus, Chamonix, and Wisner being the oddballs. Although, to be fair, Chamonix's Hugo Zhang has said that they are aiming toward Sandy's specs.

I truly hope we can arrive at a definitive set of standards soon. New equipment is appearing every day, including a camera that I am designing. Interchangeability of accessories and the resulting ease of manufacture is good for all of us.

[Rob Vinnedge]

In other industries, standards have emerged as a way to bring a degree of order out of the chaos that exists when there are many suppliers offering products and where buyers make purchasing decisions based on price and delivery. In that situation, products from different manufacturers need to be interchangeable and able to work together. That's called a commodity market.

There aren't very many suppliers in the ULF industry, and it seems to me that the products are a long way from being commodity products.

Frankly, what standardization of ULF holders would do is make it possible for low-cost third party suppliers to enter the game and make it a commodity market. I don't see a lot of incentive for the existing manufacturers to want that to happen,.

Frankly, users may not want it either. Part of the allure of ULF is that the equipment is the craftsmanship that goes into cameras and holders, a level of craftsmanship that often parallels the exquisite photographic work for which it is intended. Can you imagine universal (one size fits all) injection molded plastic holders rather than holders custom-crafted from fine hardwoods?

I do see your point, that some manufacturers may want to remain proprietary (Lotus?), but frankly, one reason I chose not to go with Lotus was that it limited me. I would not have chosen Wisner for the same reason (a wise decision in retrospect).

Regarding users' needs, a cheaper, one size fits all holder might be desirable, given that there are already enough exquisite pieces of equipment to purchase in the ULF world. There will always be a market for Sandy's holders for the reason you describe. I, for one, want a camera that will accept them, as they appear to be emerging as the new standard.

[barryjyoung]

I do see your point, that some manufacturers may want to remain proprietary (Lotus?), but frankly, one reason I chose not to go with Lotus was that it limited me. I would not have chosen Wisner for the same reason (a wise decision in retrospect).

Regarding users' needs, a cheaper, one size fits all holder might be desirable, given that there are already enough exquisite pieces of equipment to purchase in the ULF world. There will always be a market for Sandy's holders for the reason you describe. I, for one, want a camera that will accept them, as they appear to be emerging as the new standard.

I am a film holder manufacturer, just starting out full time last week. The first holder rails are coming off the CNC machine this afternoon. I am complying with the standards put forth by Sandy King.

[argus]

I am a film holder manufacturer, just starting out full time last week. The first holder rails are coming off the CNC machine this afternoon. I am complying with the standards put forth by Sandy King.

Congratulations, Barry. I hope your business will go well, since I know the thrill of finally starting professionally what you've been doing before as 'hobby projects'.
I started making ground glass last year as an after-hours business and I still can't give up my daytime job to live from it.

Meantime, what would your 7x17" holders cost? You can PM me if you'd rather like that. I would be interested in a lot of 5 and would eventually adapt my camera back to them if the price suits me.
I have only 2 holders now and planned to make 2 others but after 18 months I didn't start up the saw and mill to do it

Kind regards,
Geert

[barryjyoung]

Congratulations, Barry. I hope your business will go well, since I know the thrill of finally starting professionally what you've been doing before as 'hobby projects'.
I started making ground glass last year as an after-hours business and I still can't give up my daytime job to live from it.

Meantime, what would your 7x17" holders cost? You can PM me if you'd rather like that. I would be interested in a lot of 5 and would eventually adapt my camera back to them if the price suits me.
I have only 2 holders now and planned to make 2 others but after 18 months I didn't start up the saw and mill to do it

Kind regards,
Geert

Hello Geert:

Thanks for the good wishes for the business. I wish you well in yours too. Perhaps I can get you to make focusing screens for our line of cameras?

The film holder price is as yet undecided until I finish the batch I am working on now. I am still calculating cycle times and making fixture modifications. I do know that we were talking about a buy 4 get one free plan which seems to fit in with your need for five holders. I know that we will never sell anything that we do not have in inventory. We plan to put requests into a queue until inventory builds to the point that the oldest request in the queue can be satisfied. That requestor will then be emailed to see if they are still interested and the next and the next and so on until the queue is empty. Then the process starts again. We will take no money from customers until their product is ready to ship.

I believe I can say that the development costs to make two holders definitely would exceed the costs to buy five. At least if you approached it from a manufacturing point of view.

Thanks for your interest and please let me know about the focusing screens.