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  1. #1

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    Teaching Workshops

    I've been curious about an issue for some time now. Perhaps my APUG friends can help me with it.
    A while back, someone e-mailed me after seeing my website. He liked my gum work. He asked if I ever teach workshops. I said no, not at this time. Frankly I never even considered it before. I'm still not really considering it.
    Everything I know about printing I learned from other people and books. Kerik, Chris Anderson, etc..
    So my question is: at what point can you possibly call something your own, to the point of teaching it to other people? If I tried to teach a workshop using techniques I learned specifically from other people and from books, I would feel like I was stealing. It would be like plagiarism to use someone elses techniques and pass them off as your own. Then again, very rarely do we find anything that is completely original. All things come from another source. Would you just teach it, but give credit to your sources and that suffice?
    Any thoughts on this issue?
    Steve
    www.scdowellphoto.com

  2. #2
    glbeas's Avatar
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    Teaching is not so much about what is your original work but in passing knowledge along. If you teach a workshop crediting your sources will only make you more credible as a teacher as then anyone can see the quality of your sources.
    Gary Beasley

  3. #3

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    You've taken the time to learn a skill, a musical instrument teacher charges and they had to learn the skill.

    You would be paid for "your" knowledge. Spread the wealth, teach someone so they can in turn teach someone else.

    My 2 cents.

    Mike

  4. #4
    Vaughn's Avatar
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    I learned carbon printing from an article in ViewCamera Magazine back in 1992. So basically I used the info provided by the author (Michael Sandquist -- hope I got the 1st name right!). Saw my first carbon prints (other than my own) in 2003 at a conference Sandy King was also attending. Since then, I have been able to share knowledge and gain knowledge through the internet. With some demand and some encouragement, I taught my first professional workshop a couple years back -- after doing informal free week-end workshops for our students for a few years.

    But workshops are a scam and I will tell you why. Take my last carbon workshop I gave in Newport, OR, as an example. I conned 4 people into paying me to supposively teach them to make carbon prints. What actually happened was that I learned a whole bunch about carbon printing and about giving workshops -- and (this is the kicker) I had a ton of fun. So not only did I make a couple hundred bucks, learn stuff, and have fun, I also got away from the family and the honey-do list for a weekend (anyone want three almost-13 year old boys?). And had a nice drive up and down the Oregon Coast. Okay -- the participants managed to go home with prints and the knowledge to make more.

    So teach a workshop! We all benefit from the knowledge of the true pioneers of photography, and if we are lucky we can add a bit to that base of knowledge. And if we are really lucky, we can pass that knowledge forward.

    Vaughn

    The fine print: Giving workshops is also a lot of work, stress, time, and stress (I am hoping experience will reduce the stress a bit). And it is worth it!

    PS -- if one of my past students eventually give carbon printing workshops on their own, should I demand a 10% commission on their workshop fees?
    At least with LF landscape, a bad day of photography can still be a good day of exercise.

  5. #5
    Jim Fitzgerald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaughn View Post
    I learned carbon printing from an article in ViewCamera Magazine back in 1992. So basically I used the info provided by the author (Michael Sandquist -- hope I got the 1st name right!). Saw my first carbon prints (other than my own) in 2003 at a conference Sandy King was also attending. Since then, I have been able to share knowledge and gain knowledge through the internet. With some demand and some encouragement, I taught my first professional workshop a couple years back -- after doing informal free week-end workshops for our students for a few years.

    But workshops are a scam and I will tell you why. Take my last carbon workshop I gave in Newport, OR, as an example. I conned 4 people into paying me to supposively teach them to make carbon prints. What actually happened was that I learned a whole bunch about carbon printing and about giving workshops -- and (this is the kicker) I had a ton of fun. So not only did I make a couple hundred bucks, learn stuff, and have fun, I also got away from the family and the honey-do list for a weekend (anyone want three almost-13 year old boys?). And had a nice drive up and down the Oregon Coast. Okay -- the participants managed to go home with prints and the knowledge to make more.

    So teach a workshop! We all benefit from the knowledge of the true pioneers of photography, and if we are lucky we can add a bit to that base of knowledge. And if we are really lucky, we can pass that knowledge forward.

    Vaughn

    The fine print: Giving workshops is also a lot of work, stress, time, and stress (I am hoping experience will reduce the stress a bit). And it is worth it!

    PS -- if one of my past students eventually give carbon printing workshops on their own, should I demand a 10% commission on their workshop fees?
    Vaughn, I would be happy to give you one of my prints instead of the 10%. It would be worth more, I hope. Next we meet I will do so, but I digress.
    I learned carbon transfer from my mentor, Vaughn. He is the photographer that helped me unlock what I had been searching for for my entire photographic career. He explained the process and taught me what I needed to know. Gave me my foundation. Unlocked my passion for my form of expression.
    I am giving my first workshop next month because I love carbon transfer and I love teaching and passing along what I have learned. I hope to at some point unlock the passion in someone else the way Vaughn did for me. I do not expect to make a lot of money at this and that for me is not the point. I love carbon and wish to pass my knowledge on. I expect to spend two 13 hour days teaching and at the end of it I hope I will have done well. I WILL have a lot of fun.

    Jim

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by sdivot View Post
    I've been curious about an issue for some time now. Perhaps my APUG friends can help me with it.
    A while back, someone e-mailed me after seeing my website. He liked my gum work. He asked if I ever teach workshops. I said no, not at this time. Frankly I never even considered it before. I'm still not really considering it.
    Everything I know about printing I learned from other people and books. Kerik, Chris Anderson, etc..
    So my question is: at what point can you possibly call something your own, to the point of teaching it to other people? If I tried to teach a workshop using techniques I learned specifically from other people and from books, I would feel like I was stealing. It would be like plagiarism to use someone elses techniques and pass them off as your own. Then again, very rarely do we find anything that is completely original. All things come from another source. Would you just teach it, but give credit to your sources and that suffice?
    Any thoughts on this issue?
    Steve
    www.scdowellphoto.com
    I don't believe that any of your workshop teachers, especially people like Kerik and Chris who are tops in their area of photographic expertise, would find anything wrong with you teaching a workshop where you passed on the things they taught you. In fact, I think as teachers they would be pleased to see you carry on their work, so long as you learned well, know what you are doing, and give full credit to them for any personal things they may have taught you. By personal I mean concrete contributions to the craft that they may have made which are unique to their working style and not part of the larger craft of gum printing which is part of our photographic heritage.

    As someone who has taught quite a number of carbon transfer workshops (and a few pt/pd ones as well), in the US and in several countries abroad, I share with my students all of my skills and don't have any secrets. What they learn from me they should feel free to pass on to others as they like. From time to time I may be working on something experimental and not have all the details worked out and in those circumstances it is possible that I would ask that they not share this with others as my method since it is not complete and I may reject it down the road for one reason or another.

    So in your shoes I think you should have no compunctions about offering workshops in which you share with others the knowledge and experiences of your own teachers. But if you have handouts they prepared and gave you for the workshop you should not make those available to your students unless you have the specific authorization to do so. When one takes the time to write an article or book about a process that is intellectual property and we should respect the rights of the creator.


    Sandy King

  7. #7
    Kerik's Avatar
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    Steve, I agree with what Sandy and everyone is saying. Nothing I teach do I consider proprietary. There is no licensing agreement or threat of legal ramifications. A student pays me to to teach them something, then it's theirs to do with as they wish. In fact, when I see or hear of someone using techniques that I'm fairly certain started with me or my old partner in crime, Stuart Melvin, it just makes me smile. I do appreciate it when I get a nod from someone for the techniques I teach. As long as you don't misrepresent things you've learned from others as "yours", there's nothing to feel guilty about. In fact being a good teacher is more about communication than anything else. Face it, most of the alternative processes are in fact very simple. It ain't rocket science, despite how some people may represent it. Your work has grown immensely since the workshop you took from me several years ago. Go forth and spread the wealth, my friend!
    Kerik Kouklis
    Platinum/Gum/Collodion
    www.kerik.com
    2014 Workshop Schedule Online

  8. #8
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Back in the 1980's in an article "Where the Wild Things Went" in Ten" magazine (UK) a group of distinguished photographers and teachers, including Thomas Joshua Cooper, Paul Hill, John Blakemore etc where described as disciples of Minor White and others.

    That term disciples is important because it means the passing on of knowledge from others. A good workshop leader will where appropriate reference previous workers and as Sandy King says pass on all their skills. It's the sharing of experience thats important and it can work both ways.

    Ian

  9. #9

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    Thanks for the replies everyone. And thanks for the compliment Kerik. It means a great deal. I was really just curious about this issue. I have no intention to teach anything any time soon. Frankly, I'm not much an an "experimenter". I find what works for me and stick with it until I want to do something else. Consequently, if a student asked "ok, this is the way you do it, but what if we changed this or that variable?" Well, at that point we would be learning together!
    So I think a person should really have a mastery of the craft, with many variables considered before they start trying to convey anything to others.
    Thanks again,
    Steve

  10. #10
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdivot View Post
    So I think a person should really have a mastery of the craft, with many variables considered before they start trying to convey anything to others.
    Thanks again,
    Steve
    I should have added "Beware false Prophets" or in the case of Photography people who don't have a full understanding and mastery of what they are teaching.

    So yes like you say mastery of the Craft aspect is paramount.

    Ian

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