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  1. #1

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    Conservation amidst Alt Processing

    Hello all Utahns,
    I am new to the LF game, in fact I don't even have the gear yet (it's on its way), but via internet research, I find myself very intrigued by alternative processing(van dyke, plat+pall, albumen). The enormous array of possible papers and procedures and varying looks seems to be the ultimate in the analog photographic process. However, one catch, these processes all seem to involve an enormous amount of water consumption: washing of the pre developed paper, washing of the post developed paper, etc. This doesn't seem very conducive to this region's biosphere, and being an environmental science major, I was hoping for a few conservational tips of the trade, if possible. Or am I just stuck with resin based paper? Thanks everyone!

    P.S. If Rob Hall reads this, Eddie from New York suggested that I meet up with you. If you wan't to PM me, that would be great, if not, that's fine too (I live in Pleasant Grove right now).

  2. #2
    JBrunner's Avatar
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    Welcome to APUG!!

    There are ways to wash without overt wastage, and most alt process doesn't require nearly the water that fiber does.
    Glad you are here. I'm in SLiC.
    Last edited by JBrunner; 12-12-2008 at 08:07 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  3. #3

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    Not being from Utah pardon my intrusion, but I do live in the dryest state in Australia so I can see your concern. As stated I dont think our hobby/profession (as the case may be) is going to break the water table, although you can chew up some water using fibre based paper in a continuous washer

    For me doing cyanotype I can do a couple of 5x7 prints in an inch or two of water in two 8x10 trays. Im just stepping up to carbon and expect to do a print a tray. For washing film I use the fill, agitate and sit x3 rule so 2 sheets of 5x7 is maybe a pint or so. Not breaking the bank by any means: run the dishwasher one less time or dont wash the car or similar and you'll more than break even.

  4. #4
    raucousimages's Avatar
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    It is not really that much water. The amount I use even in my longest fiber wash is a fraction of what I use to water my lawn or run a week of laundry. It may seem like a lot because you are watching it go down the drain in a slow trickle. The real idiocy in Utah is if you wast water the state will fine you but if your lawn is not green the cities will fine you for not watering enough. Washing prints, if you will pardon the pun, is a small drop in a very large bucket.
    DIGITAL IS FOR THOSE AFRAID OF THE DARK.

  5. #5
    Vaughn's Avatar
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    We have the opposite problem. Our water supply system was designed to handle two pulp mills, which use a tremendous amount of water. One mill closed down years ago, and the other was bought by the Chinese and is now shut down (temp or permanent, we don't know). So now the domestic water users might have their water bills greatly increased because the revenue from the pulp mills is gone and we'll have to shoulder the costs of the over-capacity.

    But conservation tips -- explore the possibility of using gray water for the initial washing of film and paper...then finish with clean water (one can use salt water for the initial wash, but the Great Salt Lake might be a bit much)

    Use standing-water wash baths as much as possible.

    Don't wash obvious rejects.

    SLC gets 1 to 2 inches of rain/precipitation a month (according to http://countrystudies.us/united-stat...-lake-city.htm ), get a tank and capture the rain off the roof. I have used roof water to develop negatives in Australia.

    Vaughn
    At least with LF landscape, a bad day of photography can still be a good day of exercise.

  6. #6
    dpurdy's Avatar
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    It is kind of funny here in Portland where we are deluged with rain about 3/4 the year yet the systems for catching rain water out of the gutters have really caught on and you see the big barrels everywhere. Over flowing I would guess.
    Dennis

  7. #7
    JBrunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dpurdy View Post
    It is kind of funny here in Portland where we are deluged with rain about 3/4 the year yet the systems for catching rain water out of the gutters have really caught on and you see the big barrels everywhere. Over flowing I would guess.
    Dennis
    If you caught rain in a barrel in Utah, you'd best use it quick. With our super dry humidity level it would be gone in a very short time. Of our 1-2 inches/mo average, 80% is frozen when it hits the ground and happens in the winter, and the other 20% comes in 1/8 inch increments over the space of nine months.

  8. #8
    raucousimages's Avatar
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    We get an average of 1-2 inches a month. But it all comes in the winter as snow. We bake all summer with almost no rain.

    Removing water from the Great Salt Lake is considered mining due to the high mineral content. It is so bad that no table salt comes from the lake any more, just road and industrial salt. It might make for some weird tones.

    And right now it actually illegal to catch rainwater but that will be changing next year. Water is so valuable here that is a natural resource belonging to the state.
    DIGITAL IS FOR THOSE AFRAID OF THE DARK.

  9. #9
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    For my albumen prints, I've been using a standing water bath with several changes of water, rather than a continuous water bath for the pre-wash (after exposure, before toning to remove silver halide that hasn't printed out). With a continuous wash there is some danger of streaking unless it is very slow or sufficiently random (an EcoWash print washer is said to be a good choice for this purpose, but they are quite expensive), so it actually turns out better to use a simple tray with the fill, shuffle, and dump method.

    For the final wash, I use Permawash to reduce wash times.
    flickr--http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidagoldfarb/
    Photography (not as up to date as the flickr site)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com/photo
    Academic (Slavic and Comparative Literature)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com

  10. #10
    JBrunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raucousimages View Post
    We get an average of 1-2 inches a month. But it all comes in the winter as snow. We bake all summer with almost no rain.

    Removing water from the Great Salt Lake is considered mining due to the high mineral content. It is so bad that no table salt comes from the lake any more, just road and industrial salt. It might make for some weird tones.

    And right now it actually illegal to catch rainwater but that will be changing next year. Water is so valuable here that is a natural resource belonging to the state.
    Yes, at that brings up our water cycle here. Aquifers and reservoirs here are charged by spring run off. Our winter snow pack determines how much water will be available for the coming year. In bad years water becomes a very critical issue. In wet years, a bunch of it winds up in the Great Salt Lake, or in the east part of the state, sent on down to the more deserving members (sarcasm) of the Colorado River Compact. Las Vegas lives on Utah water.

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