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  1. #71
    Aristophanes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zumbido View Post
    People always join "teams" on "sides" of shifts like this. A certain type of analog tribalist is no less guilty. See this thread itself for the usual examples of silly assertions about how all digital images are going to evaporate in a few decades and only film (which, for the record, is a lot more sensitive to every common environmental factor than solid-state digital storage media, and a lot more difficult to effectively back-up) is an "archival" media. That sort of raving doesn't help with either the mainstream audience or the rational segment of film lovers.
    +1

    Coming out with "fim is superior to digifail" makes all film users out to be reactionary Luddite cranks.

    Saying that all photography is good, but "yoo may want to try this hand-crafted, old school photography" is a winning sales pitch.

    The vast majority of film users acquired through evangelizing will not be in the darkroom anyways because most people haven't the time, money, or space for one. They'll get a mail-order lab to do it, and it will inevitably be scanned. So discrediting digital when scanning will be a key component of promoting film is inherently counter-productive.

  2. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aristophanes View Post
    +1

    Coming out with "fim is superior to digifail" makes all film users out to be reactionary Luddite cranks.

    Saying that all photography is good, but "yoo may want to try this hand-crafted, old school photography" is a winning sales pitch.
    Absolutely. This approach is why I can at the drop of a hat get large groups to go out on (film) photo walks with me or join me for a basic intro to processing and printing. I'm still a rank amateur in the darkroom myself (only been at it for a couple years, part-time, in the bathtub), so they're getting exactly what they pay for.
    -brian hayden
    http://fed-2.org

  3. #73
    Toffle's Avatar
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    A few years ago, when I first joined the forum, there was a gentleman whose name escapes me, who proclaimed that as far as he was concerned (and for everyone else, in his opinion) there was no further point to photography because his favourite paper had been discontinued. I don't know what became of him, but I do know that photography as a relevant art does and will continue. Many of us may fall by the wayside if and when materials become difficult to obtain or make for ourselves. The traditional photographer will be considered an artisan, and the finer practitioners, artists. We may be considered curious or quaint. There are already fluff news "features" about photographers who work with traditional materials. Are we becoming the "water-skiing squirrels" of our time?

    I am ok with this.
    (except for the squirrel part)
    Tom, on Point Pelee, Canada

    Ansel Adams had the Zone System... I'm working on the points system. First I points it here, and then I points it there...

    http://tom-overton-images.weebly.com


  4. #74

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    I must have been in the can when they were handing out bushy tails. I always wanted a bushy tail.
    -brian hayden
    http://fed-2.org

  5. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aristophanes View Post
    +1

    Coming out with "fim is superior to digifail" makes all film users out to be reactionary Luddite cranks.

    Saying that all photography is good, but "yoo may want to try this hand-crafted, old school photography" is a winning sales pitch.
    You are right!

    I think the most important thing is simply to use film, so people see that you are taking pictures on film. Generally the feed back is almost always very good. Then it's good to show your photos - nowadays this is pretty easy as if you are meeting people most digital photographers are showing their pictures on their i-phone - so you just have to show a print on FB paper...;-) Especially young people who grew up with digital photography are very interested in the traditional way. Generally it is important to show people, that film is not dead. I met young photographers who never tried film just because they did not even think about it or thinking that film is not produced anymore......

  6. #76
    CGW
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aristophanes View Post
    +1

    Coming out with "fim is superior to digifail" makes all film users out to be reactionary Luddite cranks.

    Saying that all photography is good, but "yoo may want to try this hand-crafted, old school photography" is a winning sales pitch.

    The vast majority of film users acquired through evangelizing will not be in the darkroom anyways because most people haven't the time, money, or space for one. They'll get a mail-order lab to do it, and it will inevitably be scanned. So discrediting digital when scanning will be a key component of promoting film is inherently counter-productive.
    Reactionary crank is more like it.(With respect, read some E.J. Hobsbawn for what Luddism was about). The dismissal of all things non-analog wins PKM-25 and others nothing but raised eyebrows and zero cred among their intended audience. I show/give prints to friends, acquaintances, models, and even street shot subjects if I can re-connect with them. They like them for the "look" but also that the print is theirs, a tangible one-off, an "ongoing moment" as Geoff Dyer says. It's not about gear fondling or smugness. It's about the qualitative difference in the images that most people can see immediately. On that, I feel this site is nearing a rethink of its mission and what analog photography means in 2012. Otherwise, the narrowmindedness and parochialism often in evidence could be its undoing.
    Last edited by CGW; 01-25-2012 at 10:02 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  7. #77
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aristophanes View Post
    makes all film users out to be reactionary Luddite cranks.
    But some of us are!!


    Steve.
    "People who say things won't work are a dime a dozen. People who figure out how to make things work are worth a fortune" - Dave Rat.

  8. #78
    Aristophanes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toffle View Post
    A few years ago, when I first joined the forum, there was a gentleman whose name escapes me, who proclaimed that as far as he was concerned (and for everyone else, in his opinion) there was no further point to photography because his favourite paper had been discontinued. I don't know what became of him, but I do know that photography as a relevant art does and will continue. Many of us may fall by the wayside if and when materials become difficult to obtain or make for ourselves. The traditional photographer will be considered an artisan, and the finer practitioners, artists. We may be considered curious or quaint. There are already fluff news "features" about photographers who work with traditional materials. Are we becoming the "water-skiing squirrels" of our time?

    I am ok with this.
    (except for the squirrel part)
    I am NEVER driving again because they no longer make this:

    Click image for larger version. 

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  9. #79
    David Brown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CGW View Post
    ... I feel this site is nearing a rethink of its mission and what analog photography means in 2012. Otherwise, the narrowmindedness and parochialism often in evidence could be its undoing.
    It could be.

    However, as someone who's been here for many more years than you, I have to state that the original "mission" of APUG was not anti-digital. (It has always been unfortunate that we attracted the rabid types - on both sides.) APUG was (and is) not anti-digital, it is just a place that analog practitioners can discuss analog without having digital being forced into every discussion. In the early days that was a problem. The site is much more tolerant now. (See this thread)

  10. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by CGW View Post
    Reactionary crank is more like it.(With respect, read some E.J. Hobsbawn for what Luddism was about). The dismissal of all things non-analog wins PKM-25 and others nothing but raised eyebrows and zero cred among their intended audience. I show/give prints to friends, acquaintances, models, and even street shot subjects if I can re-connect with them. They like them for the "look" but also that the print is theirs, a tangible one-off, an "ongoing moment" as Geoff Dyer says. It's not about gear fondling or smugness. It's about the qualitative difference in the images that most people can see immediately. On that, I feel this site is nearing a rethink of its mission and what analog photography means in 2012. Otherwise, the narrowmindedness and parochialism often in evidence could be its undoing.
    It's nice to have friends in the world who email you to tell you that someone is talking smack about you on a forum, LOL!

    Look sir, I never meant to imply that I am the only one doing something to promote film use, sorry you took that personally to the point that you have to target me like this.

    The fact of the matter is that I have been shooting digital professionally for over 18 years, been there done that and I am still doing it. I have nearly 200,000 frames on my D700, tens of thousands on my X100 which is not even a year old, both killer rigs to shoot with. I have a D4 on order, etc…

    But I love film, I love the mystery, the unintended consequence of visually meandering from the norm, or at least the perceived one. So I am fighting tooth and nail to shoot less commercial and editorial work in which digital is a requirement and instead, is an option and do more fine art and book projects in which I call the shots, and shoot film.

    Here is why I feel we are not doing enough to promote film use, this site included: In terms of mainstream / consumer use, film is toast, no argument there. But the hype engine that is the internet is making the mainstream / consumer level camera user think it is gone, period. They think you can not get film anywhere. When Kodachrome was nixed, I can not tell you how many people thought that meant that FILM was nixed!

    The simple fact remains that if enough people use a product, there will be at least some form of business model to be had from that. But if far less people use film or at least seek out the option because they keep hearing film is dead and see no evidence that it is alive and well, then we are screwed.

    So how about knocking off the targeting of me, show some work on here, like you do out there? It is go time for all of us, otherwise….
    "I'm the freak that shoots film. God bless the freaks!" ~ Mainecoonmaniac ~

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