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  1. #1
    Ektagraphic's Avatar
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    Square Grained film

    Would it be possible for film to have square grains? (AFAIK, it does not, but I could be looking like an idiot right now). If so, would remotely look like it has p-x-l-s rather than traditional grain?

    Patrick
    Helping to save analog photography one exposure at a time

  2. #2
    Terry Christian's Avatar
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    I would venture to say that it would probably look like most other T-grained film. When we refer to visible "grain" on film, we're actually seeing large clumps of silver grains, not individual grains themselves. I recall someone making that same point in a thread here recently.

  3. #3
    holmburgers's Avatar
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    If I'm not getting in over my head, I believe that silver-halide crystal formation is governed by the pAg of the solution in which it is formed, in addition to the soluble salts & other things (silver-halide solvents, etc.) present.

    According to the famous graph that's posted hither and thither, there is no square grain stage. And like Terry says, they'd be so small that you wouldn't really see them as individual squares anyway.

  4. #4
    Nicholas Lindan's Avatar
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    A 'grain' of developed silver looks like nothing so much as a bit of steel-wool scouring pad. The undeveloped silver halide crystal is either a cube (sometimes with itty-bitty cubes at the corners) [traditional emulsion] or a flat triangle with the points chopped off [t-grain 'tabular' emulsion]. The action of the developer is to extrude a filament of metalic silver from the active site on the exposed crystal. The shape of the developed silver filament has little, if anything, to do with the shape of the silver halide crystal.
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  5. #5
    segedi's Avatar
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    Just curious as to why you'd want that? And wondering if moire would be an issue.
    -----------------------

    Segedi.com

  6. #6
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    A grain of Silver halide isn't like a Pixel there can be more than one development site.

    Ian

  7. #7
    holmburgers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Lindan View Post
    The shape of the developed silver filament has little, if anything, to do with the shape of the silver halide crystal.
    Great point!
    If you are the big tree, we are the small axe

  8. #8
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by holmburgers View Post
    Great point!
    The shape of the crystals does have an effect on how they stack together in an emulsion, the neater they'll pack the finer the potential grain after processing.

    Ian

  9. #9
    lxdude's Avatar
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    Pixels don't have to be square. They could be arranged in a way that would cause them to be hex-shaped for example, and that would be what you would see on your monitor- a honeycomb instead of a grid.

    The individual "grains" are particles which are extremely small-- nanometer scale. What you see as grain is a random variation in density of developed particles, as viewed through the entire emulsion. It is a visual phenomenon, rather than a physical one, as it would be if it were actual clumps.
    Last edited by lxdude; 05-31-2012 at 05:07 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  10. #10

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    One of the unfortunate things about Nature is that she gives us what she wants and not what we desire. Some years ago there was a serious attempt to breed chickens who would lay square (actually cubical) eggs. Such an egg would be ideal for shipping. Ma Nature didn't like the idea and neither did the chickens.
    Last edited by Gerald C Koch; 05-31-2012 at 04:52 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral.

    ~Antoine de Saint-Exupery

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