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  1. #31
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    Is APS totally dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Cole View Post
    You know, I forgot all about those panoramic settings. You're right - way too small for that. But I always considered cropping a letterbox shape out of a regular frame to be faux panoramic anyway. You could always do the same thing in printing. It's certainly not like, say, shooting 6x12 or 6x17cm on 120.
    No of course not, but with the magnetic info on the APX film, they could have made it on 35mm film with a film count RANGE, and allowed for true pano on the film, or 8x10 or 8x12 frame and had a variable counter, so 14-42 frames depending on if you shot all pano or a mix, or all 8x10(4x5) so you could effectively get MORE out of a roll than 35mm this would be a big appeal for the competition to digital at the time when you could shoot like 65 shots on a 64MB flash card! Woohoo!

    They just could have been smarter, instead they were focused on cutting the COST of the film to THEM and not how it could be a better film to US customers.

    Ok I've said my bit I'll shush now...


    ~Stone

    The Noteworthy Ones - Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1 / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic

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    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  2. #32
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    Is APS totally dead?

    Oh heck... See!

    No I don't keep my camera in the fridge, just easier to see the film and camera together haha so it's an EOS IX (not to be confused with a 35mm film camera from years before with lower case ix...

    It takes two 123 batteries, can do timer and remote wireless trigger, a terribly dark viewfinder (though the lens on it doesn't get bigger than 3.5) an has all the pro settings IE full manual, Av, Tv, P and even DEP as well as all the auto settings for dummies

    To aid in autofocus it had a dedicated flash that aims at center focus and is a different flash from the on camera pop up flash, interesting and probably a huge battery drainer.

    Has date stamp settings, exposure bracketing, and exposure compensation options, exposure from 30 seconds to 1/4000 second, and bulb exposure. Auto focus in one shot (focus and lock for re composure) and AI Servo (track focussing or constant focus I forget which that one is).

    All in all, lots of pro level features for an APX film camera at the time but they didn't market it very heavily and it went highly unnoticed.

    I snagged one off Craigslist 5 years back for $20

    The lens 24-85 3.5-4.5 isn't half bad from the CA/distortion side of things.

    Ok off to NY for work (live in CT, commute to NY).

    Don't know why I made this report, maybe just wanted to geek out, maybe curious since I haven't used it in 2 years and didn't remember... Haha


    ~Stone

    The Noteworthy Ones - Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1 / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic

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    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  3. #33
    AgX
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    I see this panorama thing rather as a gadget to show the customer one of the novelty features of the new films.

    The other features hinted rightly in the posts above, aside of that most easy loading, don't show their advantages at once but rather at processing or later handling.
    The aspect-ratio setting is related to processing/printing too, but at least it is somthing the customer could chose at the taking stage and as such it was incorporated in most APS cameras.

  4. #34

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    The one thing I liked about APS, besides the compact size of the cameras, was the fact that with the right (read: higher-end) camera and a fully APS-capable lab, the back printing gave all of the details about the exposure: Date, time, ISO, shutter speed, aperture, and if there was any manual exposure adjustment. You could also add titles on the camera that ended up being printed on the back of each print as well. I'm lucky in that one of my local labs still maintains their APS equipment enough so that if I go shooting with my Minolta S-1, they will still do all of the back printing.
    "Panic not my child, the Great Yellow Father has your hand"--Larry Dressler

  5. #35
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    Is APS totally dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by nickrapak View Post
    The one thing I liked about APS, besides the compact size of the cameras, was the fact that with the right (read: higher-end) camera and a fully APS-capable lab, the back printing gave all of the details about the exposure: Date, time, ISO, shutter speed, aperture, and if there was any manual exposure adjustment. You could also add titles on the camera that ended up being printed on the back of each print as well. I'm lucky in that one of my local labs still maintains their APS equipment enough so that if I go shooting with my Minolta S-1, they will still do all of the back printing.
    That's cool, I have to download my shooting data to an old windows 95 PC from my 1V in order to get aperture/shutter info.


    ~Stone

    The Noteworthy Ones - Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1 / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  6. #36
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    APS was a compromise between several camera and film companies. Thus you can say, like the old saying, "an elephant is a mouse designed by a committee"!

    That said, I saw, while doing R&D at EK, a talking photo system and a 3D photo system. Both were quite interesting but never got incorporated into APS. The talking option was considered due to the magnetic stripe.

    The different formats were the same size on the negative, but the viewfinder showed a different format. The format choice was recorded on the film and then the printer adapted to that information to print one of the 3 formats.

    PE

  7. #37
    Diapositivo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    The APS format was chosen to be the same size as digital sensors! No more and no less. Digital sensors at that time and in planning were the same size as APS.

    PE
    I am not convinced by this affirmation. Which digital sensors? 4:3 were smaller. Point-&-shoot had and still have smaller sensor. The APS-C sensors in digital domain take their name from film (APS) which as introduced first, and not the other way round.

    APS (film) was introduced in 1996. Its design phase I reckon should date back to at least a couple years before. Digital photography was in its infancy.
    If the market it was aimed at was the P&S, why choose the APS format? There was no APS format digital camera in the P&S market.
    If the market it was aimed at was the "mature reflex" camera, then why the APS format? In 1996 there were no DSLR as far as I can remember.
    Who could predict the APS format would have been dominant in 6 or 8 years?

    In general, I find it difficult to believe that in 1996 Kodak, Fujifilm, Minolta, Canon, Nikon etc. were so much involved into digital photography as to base the dimension of the film format on the needs of a very future, or futurible, digital revolution. I mean the mentioned "planning" was likely to be at a very pre-pre-pre-production stage and not in such a stage as to influence the film format which could have been dominating the film market for decades.

    In hindsight we know that digital prevailed and that APS format prevailed (so far) within digital. But in 1996 (or before) one should have been a real witch to predict the future.
    Last edited by Diapositivo; 11-02-2012 at 12:44 PM. Click to view previous post history.
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  8. #38
    AgX
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    Talking photos

    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    I saw, while doing R&D at EK, a talking photo system and a 3D photo system. Both were quite interesting but never got incorporated into APS. The talking option was considered due to the magnetic stripe.

    Talking photos had already been established though in a much less elaborate way:

    You got from the lab your print with a magnetic strip along the underside. At home by means of a special recorder you could speak a short message onto the photo. Handed to someone with the same apparatus the photo could be listened to so to say.
    I got on of these recorders.


    APS:
    Was there anything special on that planned 3D system? Or a plain two-lens 3D-camera but for APS-format?

  9. #39
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    I saw no APS in 3D! These were much before APS.

    I have seen several "talkiing" photo methods. None related to APS went beyond the early talking phase of R&D. The others existed as you say and were simpler.

    As for the APS size, you must remember that at that time EK was at the sharp edge of sensor production even though they lost out. The format chosen to match sensor and film sizes was made for economy as sensors were quite expensive. The name APS and the sensor size and film dimensions were planned on by all involved.

    There was lag and lead in both the film projects and the sensor projects at EK, but the first sensors were much smaller and fit in the window of an EPROM. I have held some of those first samples at EK and have held the first digital camera.

    PE

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    I ... have held the first digital camera.

    PE
    Did you wash your hands afterwards?
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

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