Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 70,693   Posts: 1,548,974   Online: 796
      
Page 14 of 16 FirstFirst ... 48910111213141516 LastLast
Results 131 to 140 of 151
  1. #131

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    UK
    Shooter
    35mm RF
    Posts
    2,915
    Quote Originally Posted by ntenny View Post
    But what's the alternative? Send donations? I'm not trying to be obstinate or facetious here, I just don't understand how you rationalize blaming the customer when the supplier underprices.



    I haven't looked at the price lately, but the spectral response poops out much lower than the Efke film did. See the compared curves at http://www.digitaltruth.com/products...d_film_010.php, for instance.

    Rollei reaches higher, but as compared to the Efke film, it does it with a very different curve within the IR range and a much lower "cliff" around 780 nm. I've shot the two side by side through an 89B and found them very different; the Rollei film is a stop or two faster but looks less "IR-y".

    -NT
    I was aware of the different spectral responses and am impressed you did your own experiments.

    And impressed you understand my stilted English.

    I did not mean to suggest you could have done any thing merely that you might have been aware.

    Today you could write to Adox though probably better if you had done it last year.

    Because commercial film manufacture is a volume batch process as the volume drops the selection will reduce.

    SFX is probably very low volume already. Only one of my brick shop retailer's stocks SFX or Delta3200, not a good sign, the other will order it.

    Eventually reducing to two 400 ISO monochromes say or C41 in 35mm only. Might take decades.

    The films are like going up stairs the top step IR film. The IR was probably a military contract where the development was funded 100% by the customer with a long term production contract following, the commercial sales merely some jam on bread. This is what permitted the final step ( to IR) and spectral performance. Ditto for Kodak.

    The process chemicals are a risk they can be forbidden after a given date so you need to find a substitute and do a prototype coat and alter the datasheet.

    The rescent restriction is on a bromoil chemical now only available to education establishments, ... etc. the EC is using a Procustean schema. I don't think I can get around it (legally) even by changing the articles of my company.

    Anything like that could kill a film type, but a fault in the volume coating machine was a kissogram from Judas.

    Ilford had a fault with their 220 finisher that finished 220 (as an Ilford product).

    I was using CHS100 in 135 as a backup for the cine or survelliance film - I load into velvet less cassettes. Most of the film I use is PET base anyway so the handling was not special.

    I really liked the signature.

    Adox say one of the CHS typeI chemicals was no longer available so they had to start from bottom step for typeII.

    I dont think it was your (ie IR users) fault that their margins were too small as lots of the problem was Agfa's post bankrupty coatings of APX depressing conventional film margins. I don't think this was vindictive merely an artifice of receivers. It would have been better if Agfa's coater had broken.

    This is free market...

    SFX is reassuringly expensive.

    Fuji are selling rebadged 200 ISO c41 very cheap. I don't use it but it must be hurting KA's sales.
    Last edited by Xmas; 06-03-2014 at 04:03 AM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: oops

  2. #132

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    UK
    Shooter
    35mm RF
    Posts
    2,915
    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    My helicopter must have flown over Toms head

    Yes actually shot a roll of it in Maine and sent it to Praus to develop, it came back blank, I asked him and he said often the transparencies that are very old just don't work, sadly, tonight as a matter of fact, I went to grab that roll for re-rolling and realized it was E-4.... DOH!! neither of us caught that sadly.... I saw ektachrome and just assumed E-6, and you know what they about assuming...

    Wish I could have seen how it came out, the base is clean and clear, no fog.
    Well it could have been prehardened and then crossed in C41 or cold processed in C41.
    Old transparency is risky...

  3. #133
    Truzi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Ohio, USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,061
    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    I do wish some film producers would take the "impossible sales model" of selling inferior film stating that it's inferior, and saying this is it so far, if you buy this, we will make improvements. Instead of scrapping whole batches, I know this sounds counter-intuitive but for "impossible" emulsions like IR, I think selling a faulty IR "Lomo" film would still be better than throwing it out completely, even if it's lower priced, better to make some money than a total loss, and as long as you state the quality ahead if time, expectations would be set properly.
    I think the "Impossible sales model" of alpha- and beta-level products is a workable idea. However, I don't think I'd want that from Ilford, and I don't think Ilford would either. They would not want to knowingly release an inferior product; and who could blame them? Their reputation is on the line.
    The only way for Ilford to do it is the "right" way, and that is cost prohibitive at this time.

    A "new" company with no reputation to hurt/live up to may be a different story.

    I don't know if I agree that SFX could/should be dropped in favor of a deeper IR film. I've not used SFX much, and only as a regular B&W film, but there is something about it - especially how it renders skin tones - that I find very compelling.
    Truzi

  4. #134
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    23,067
    Images
    65
    My terse comments are a pale echo of Simon's full answer to the question. It is not going to be made.

    Also, unfortunately, digital cameras take rather credible IR photos in B&W and color. I say credible because they are in use by the military and spy organizations using special sensors which we do not have. Our cameras can do it though. I have some quite nice digital IR done just fooling around in the back yard. So, the feeling of many is "ho hum, I don't need a film". Actually, for best results, they do!

    PE

  5. #135

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    One hour south of the Mackinaw Bridge
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    311
    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    ....Also, unfortunately, digital cameras take rather credible IR photos in B&W and color........
    I converted my old, digital Canon G2 to an IR-only camera by removing the blue filter and substituting a clear piece of glass of the same thickness. I've been astonished at the results, especially with B&W when using a 87C filter. I still have a few rolls of 35mm HIE in my freezer, but won't miss it when it's gone.

    Jim B.

  6. #136
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    23,067
    Images
    65
    However, HIE was false color which is unobtainable with a "civilian" digital camera.

    PE

  7. #137
    eddie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,420
    Images
    214
    I'm just grateful for the films, papers, and chemicals still available to me. Rather than ask companies to produce items they've deemed unfeasible, I'm perfectly happy to see them continuing to offer the fine items I need to follow my muse. I trust their ability to assess the marketplace, as it concerns the profitability of their products.

  8. #138

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    San Diego, CA, USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    2,283
    Images
    21
    Quote Originally Posted by eddie View Post
    I'm just grateful for the films, papers, and chemicals still available to me. Rather than ask companies to produce items they've deemed unfeasible, I'm perfectly happy to see them continuing to offer the fine items I need to follow my muse. I trust their ability to assess the marketplace, as it concerns the profitability of their products.
    I was told we would not have to have reasonable discussions on this BBS. :-)

    Seriously, I think this is absolutely right, and it's worth remembering that this thread was launched (two years ago) with a really outstanding explanation from Simon of why Ilford did not find a "true" IR film feasible.

    On the other hand, some of his reasons, like the commitment to SFX, were specific to Ilford, and I don't think it's inappropriate or ungrateful for the ensuing discussion to explore what other alternatives might exist, especially with the demise of the unique IR820. I hope none of us are saying "pbbbtttth on Ilford for not doing it".

    -NT
    Nathan Tenny
    San Diego, CA, USA

    The lady of the house has to be a pretty swell sort of person to put up with the annoyance of a photographer.
    -The Little Technical Library, _Developing, Printing, And Enlarging_

  9. #139

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    San Diego, CA, USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    2,283
    Images
    21
    Quote Originally Posted by Xmas View Post
    And impressed you understand my stilted English.
    I may have been in international standards too long---even after looking back, nothing you said seems "stilted" compared to some of the things I'm used to decoding! :-)

    Today you could write to Adox though probably better if you had done it last year.
    I think Mirko actually discussed the IR possibilities a little around the time CHS II 100 was being launched. My memory may be failing me a little, but it seems like Adox had the sensible plan to worry about getting one "replacement" emulsion into the market first, seeing how the reaction went (especially considering the price rise), and then evaluating further possibilities. I would assume CHS II 50 and CHS II 25 would happen before any serious thought about niche emulsions like IR.

    Because commercial film manufacture is a volume batch process as the volume drops the selection will reduce.
    You'd think so, but in b&w we're actually a bit spoilt for choice compared to most historical moments. Mostly that's down to Ilford's extensive portfolio, but you could actually write Ilford out entirely and still have a reasonable range of films available except at the high- and low-speed extremes.

    Hell, if I'm not mistaken, even Kodak actually still offers almost as many "normal" b&w films now as they did in 1975. By my count they then had Pan-X, Verichrome Pan, Plus-X, and Tri-X, and I think that was it; their other emulsions were things like Tech Pan, ortho films, HIE, and so on.

    The films are like going up stairs the top step IR film. The IR was probably a military contract where the development was funded 100% by the customer with a long term production contract following, the commercial sales merely some jam on bread. This is what permitted the final step ( to IR) and spectral performance. Ditto for Kodak.
    I think we know this was true for Kodak, but Fotokemika? Operating out of the definitive non-aligned country, I'm not sure what large-scale high-tech military they would be supporting. (I guess the IR design could have come from Agfa, though.)

    Fuji are selling rebadged 200 ISO c41 very cheap. I don't use it but it must be hurting KA's sales.
    I'm not sure what the situation looks like in Europe, but over here it's long been unusual to see Fuji and Kodak C-41 films head to head---most consumer sources seem to stock one or the other. It seems like consumer C-41, except for disposable cameras, is on its last legs in any case.

    -NT
    Nathan Tenny
    San Diego, CA, USA

    The lady of the house has to be a pretty swell sort of person to put up with the annoyance of a photographer.
    -The Little Technical Library, _Developing, Printing, And Enlarging_

  10. #140
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    23,067
    Images
    65
    Well, if it is going to be done, and Ilford is not the manufacturer, then Mirko will certainly be the one to do it and he will do it right! Of that I am sure.

    PE



 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin