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  1. #141

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mackinaw View Post
    By HIE I was referring to the B&W IR film Kodak once made. EIR was the false color stuff they once produced.

    Jim B.
    EIR is Ektachrome IR? Why is it false color? Weren't the colors based on the IR spectrum of colors? Or am I confused?

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    EIR is Ektachrome IR? Why is it false color? Weren't the colors based on the IR spectrum of colors? Or am I confused?
    Oh, oh, let me try...
    If they weren't false colors, you'd not be able to see them


    I'd guess the false colors were chosen to make different objects stand out from each other better.
    Truzi

  3. #143

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    EIR is Ektachrome IR? Why is it false color? Weren't the colors based on the IR spectrum of colors? Or am I confused?
    There isn't any "color spectrum" in infrared. It's infrared. It was called false color because (I believe) there was a blue, green and infrared layer, rather than RGB. Flying over the jungle with regular EK and photgraphing, it just looked like the jungle from the air. But with Ektachrome Infrared, the guerilla camouflage stuck out from the foliage like a sore thumb, as it had no chlorophyll in it.

    Back in the early 70's I was enamoured with HIE135-20 and bought a Kodak publication called "Applied Infrared Photography". I didn't care for it because it did not relate to a 17 year old kid shooting barns and old houses. But it was enlightening.
    Last edited by Tom1956; 06-03-2014 at 01:15 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  4. #144

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    Here's a pic taken on 35mm Kodak EIR back in the mid-1990's. I've long forgotten the specifics, but I believe I used a yellow filter.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Jim B.

  5. #145
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    Yes, my goof. It was EIR that was the color version. Sorry!

    As for false color, the blue record was never photographed by EIR. The Green was rendered as Red and so tree leaves were Red. Everything was scrambled and at the moment, I cannot remember the color orders in the film. In digital, you get all 3 layers unscrambled, but have a superposed IR image. No false color unless designed into the sensor which is not done for consumer digital, only for "spy" purposes.

    So, EIR was false color and the reason was that the IR picked up heat sources and camouflage. So, if a tree was a fake, it was not red! The forestry service used it to detect dead or dying trees or shrubs. You would see a field of red healthy foliage and a dead one would stand out by being "not-red".

    You may want to read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrare..._infrared_film instead of asking someone else to look it up for you!

    PE

  6. #146
    AgX
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    EIR is Ektachrome IR? Why is it false color? Weren't the colors based on the IR spectrum of colors? Or am I confused?
    "False Colour" means the original colours are reproduced in the final image as other colours. May the original contain IR or not.

  7. #147

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mackinaw View Post
    Here's a pic taken on 35mm Kodak EIR back in the mid-1990's. I've long forgotten the specifics, but I believe I used a yellow filter.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	kingston+plains.jpg 
Views:	34 
Size:	541.4 KB 
ID:	88993

    Jim B.
    Yes I read about using a yellow filter with the EIR and used it for most of my shots on the roll I had, sadly it was processed incorrectly as I mentioned.

  8. #148

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Yes, my goof. It was EIR that was the color version. Sorry!

    As for false color, the blue record was never photographed by EIR. The Green was rendered as Red and so tree leaves were Red. Everything was scrambled and at the moment, I cannot remember the color orders in the film. In digital, you get all 3 layers unscrambled, but have a superposed IR image. No false color unless designed into the sensor which is not done for consumer digital, only for "spy" purposes.

    So, EIR was false color and the reason was that the IR picked up heat sources and camouflage. So, if a tree was a fake, it was not red! The forestry service used it to detect dead or dying trees or shrubs. You would see a field of red healthy foliage and a dead one would stand out by being "not-red".

    You may want to read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrare..._infrared_film instead of asking someone else to look it up for you!

    PE
    Thanks, I thought you were using an in-industry term that was best asked from the source.

    So then, the "Lomography" LOMOCHROME Purple (that is C-41 and that annoys me that it has chrome in the name but anyway) is also false color, so the only difference is actually just the lack of IR sensitivity?

  9. #149

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    If memory serves me correctly, EIR false color was as follows (all emulsions record blue, which is why color film has a yellow layer underneath the blue-sensitive layer, to filter out the blue light!):
    "Blue" layer had yellow dye, but recorded blue+green.
    "Green" layer had magenta dye, but recorded blue+red
    "Red" layer had cyan dye, but recorded blue+IR

    IDK if there was a yellow filter layer in this film or not, because it was usually shot with a yellow filter that filtered out blue (or was it an orange filter?). In reversal processing, green things (and the sky has a significant amount of green in it) would be recorded as blue, red things would be recorded as green, and IR (leaves and such, which reflect lots of near IR) would be recorded as red.

    PE, does this sound right to you?
    ME Super

    Shoot more film.
    There are eight ways to put a slide into a projector tray. Seven of them are wrong.

  10. #150
    AgX
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    As for false color, the blue record was never photographed by EIR.
    Yes, it was. In all three layers. That is why a minus-blue filter must be used to avoid a mess...



 

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